Shotgun mic for Canon C100

G

guerriglia

Active member
Hi.
I asked for some suggestions in the Canon video cameras forum, but I'd like to have more options, so here I am.
Any recommendations for a shotgun on my C100 (both on-camera and for a boom)?
I am a video guy (almost all I shoot is soundless), and don't know much about sound. I need to capture high quality ambient sound and almost everybody told me that the built-in mic on the C100 is great. Some others recommend Rode NTG-2.
What's your opinion?
Thanks.
 
So, you are talking about a camera that costs about £4,000 without a lens.

Great choice.

But a mic. like the NTG-2 is far far too low down for such a camera. Whoever recommended this is used to doing low budget with a cheap camera and not high quality with a camera of the one you have.

To get the same sort of sound quality as the camera does video quality, I would put the Sennheiser MKH 8060 at the top of the list. The mic. head can be separated from the XLR module to make a compact mic. for on-camera use - I would also get the Rycote special basket windshield kit that is made for the 8060 head as this is smaller and more compact. Use a Rycote Universal Camera Kit for the mic. on-camera.

This is definitely my first choice.

Second choice would be a Schoeps CMIT5U or an MKH 416 (but the 416 is an old design and is low output and noisy compared with the 8060).

I hope this helps.
 
Thanks John, I appreciate your thorough and exhaustive explanation. However, your choices are a bit too expensive for me, considered that I'd probably use those microphones a few times a year.
 
For lower cost shotguns I would look at these mics...

Audio-Technica AT875 : Cheaper than the NTG-2, compact, supposed to have equivalent performance. ( no personal experience )

Sennheiser MKE600 : Costs more then the NTG-2, but in my opinion produces better sound.

Rode NTG-3 : Rode's version of the MKH 416. I've used it a number times, sounds quite good.


...At some point you should also consider adding a high performance mixer to your audio kit, like the Sound Devices MixPre-D. A mixer like this will bring out the best performance from your mics.
 
I'm confused. Why do you want a shotgun mic for 'ambient sound'?

When I think of ambient sound, I think of stereo and more of a wide pattern -- not mono.
 
This thread is just wrong on several levels:
The op wants a sound solution, doesn't know much about audio, has a pretty nice cam, and wants to hang a mic on it.
The op has a fairly nice cam and no budget for audio since he doesn't shoot talkies.
Willet suggests the most expensive shotguns on the market to hang on cam for ambient for whatever reasons.
Someone else confuses wide capture with stereo.

Yikes.

Grant
 
Thanks Grant ;-)

(Note: being not an audio guy, I wrongly asked for a shotgun mic to capture ambient sound. My apologies)
 
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guerriglia said:
Thanks Grant ;-)

(Note: being not an audio guy, I wrongly asked for a shotgun mic to capture ambient sound. My apologies)
Click to expand...

No apology needed here, you came for solutions. You can capture ambient with a shotgun depending on the circumstances, whatever works.
 
David W. Richardson said:
Grant, I'm not 'confusing' wide capture with stereo. I'm saying if the OP want ambient sound, he probably wants BOTH stereo AND wide capture.
Click to expand...

How often do you produce video with stereo sound? Not saying you shouldn't, but that would be a assumption considering the op is thinking camera mounted mic. If he wanted stereo for this, and didn't have a real budget, he might just as well use the on board omnis on the cam unless the wind was blowing.

I'm not really trying to just pick at people here, just want to keep this in a good perspective relative to the op query.

Grant
 
I shoot movies and short films quite a bit. Naturally I use mono for dialogue, but I use stereo for ambient sound -- room tone and that sort of thing. I also record stereo sound FX for use in my films -- crickets and cicadas chirping at night, sounds of the woods, etc.
 
John's advice seems a bit bizarre until you see from his signature that he's a very passionate audio guy, so making a recommendation of some of the highest end mics makes sense there, but not terribly relevant to the OP. I used to use the same line of reasoning for tripods... spend X percent of what you spent on the camera for a tripod, etc... but it's become less relevant due to higher quality components becoming less expensive, and many cameras such as the C100, being much much lighter than yesteryear pro cameras. that, and different people have different needs and budgets, so you work with what you've got.

but a good mic is a good mic regardless of the camera it's used on. remember that people aren't going to have a side by side comparison to judge your audio by. the rode's have a good reputation of being a lower cost good performer, many have gotten very good use out of them. i prefer the audio technicas such as the 4073a and 897, ive used them on camera, off camera, handheld, etc... the more you pay, the better they will be at coping with less than ideal conditions. just remember that microphones are a good long term investment if you can spend a few extra dollars on a better model, it's a good idea to because they're like lenses and tripiods, get a workhorse and it will see you through many years.

as for the ambient end of it, im wondering if what you're looking for is a sort of controlled ambient, which is what shotguns do tend to do, for instance, if you're in a big crowd and shot with an onboard mic, and then a shotgun mic, if you did a pan of the crowd, you'd hear a more dynamic gradation to the sound from the shotgun than the onboard.
 
David W. Richardson said:
I shoot movies and short films quite a bit. Naturally I use mono for dialogue, but I use stereo for ambient sound -- room tone and that sort of thing. I also record stereo sound FX for use in my films -- crickets and cicadas chirping at night, sounds of the woods, etc.
Click to expand...
OOOPS! Room tone and ambeince are two totally different things. Room tone is the 'sound of silence' in between the syllables in dialog and should be recorded with the same mic in the same setup as is used for the dialog itself. Room tone is used to bridge gaps in the edited dialog and should have the same timbre as the silences recorded along with the dialog. Ambiance, OTOH, is the sound of the environment - the babbling brook, traffic on the freeway, etc. THAT should be recorded with whatever gives the best results.
 
Steve House said:
OOOPS! Room tone and ambeince are two totally different things. Room tone is the 'sound of silence' in between the syllables in dialog and should be recorded with the same mic in the same setup as is used for the dialog itself. Room tone is used to bridge gaps in the edited dialog and should have the same timbre as the silences recorded along with the dialog. Ambiance, OTOH, is the sound of the environment - the babbling brook, traffic on the freeway, etc. THAT should be recorded with whatever gives the best results.
Click to expand...

So the answer to the OP then is "use whatever gives the best results"?
 
David W. Richardson said:
So the answer to the OP then is "use whatever gives the best results"?
Click to expand...

I just thought it would be a little silly to purchase a $2000 shotgun to mount on a cam to capture ambience when the op is asking for an economy solution that doesnt involve dialogue. Now if I was shot in the ass with diamonds, I'd do it, but I might sneak the expensive stick into a few other uses.

Grant
 
Thanks guys for your precious and much appreciated help. However, I am starting to be a bit confused.
I don't want you to give me a crash course on sound, but I badly need some quick clarifications.
I am shooting a documentary outdoor, where I need ambient sound (are my C100 on-camera omnis good enough for that?) but also interviews (I am about to buy a Rode NTG-1 at this point; is it ok the capture a good sound without spending 2k?).
What is the issue about stereo or not?
PLEASE HELP! :)
Thank you!!!
 
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Question - Are you planning to capture dialogue and ambient sound at the same time?

If so, and if you're planning to use your onboard mics for the ambient sound, then you need to make sure that your camera can record from both a connected shotgun mic and the onboard mics at the same time. Many camera require you to switch between the two.

If your camera doesn't allow the use of an add-on mic and the onboard mics, then you're probably looking at an additional piece of equipment -- most likely some kind of digital recorder, which I personally would use for the ambient sound, using the shotgun mic connected to the camera for dialogue. (Assuming you use a digital recorder that has good built-in mics.)

If you're planning to record your dialogue and then at a later time record the ambient sound, then an external digital recorder wouldn't be necessary.
 
If it were me, and I was on a budget, here's what I would do.

I would get the NTG-1 and a boom pole. I would also get a good digital recorder like the Zoom H4n or something better.

I would, whenever possible, put the NTG-1 on the boom pole and connect it straight to the camera. I would mount the digital recorder on the camera's shoe and use it to record whatever ambient sound there is during the shoot. This also provides a backup of the dialogue in case, for whatever reason, there is some problem with the audio from the NTG-1. I would also use the digital recorder to record any general ambient sounds you want to include.

(I only mention the NTG-1 because it appears to be the mic you have chosen. Get the best mic for dialogue that you can afford.)
 
I already thought about this issue. As far as I know, the C100 doesn't allow simultaneous recording.
I'd use the shotgun for the interview, then possibly use some ambient sound in the interview background, even though it was recorded before/after the interview.
Oh, what a mess! ;-)

(What are the main differences between a NTG-1 or NTG-2 and a AT875R, except for personal taste?).
 
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