short film on 552

V

Victor Nhat Nguyen

Well-known member
So my first mixing gigs is coming up. I'm using the 552 which is not ideal but it's low budget. We're going to have 2 lavs and one boom.

So I'm thinking that I'll pan boom to left and put both lavs on right. Are there any tips you can give me for my first time mixing?
 
HI Victor, my advice would be to spring $440 and pick up a Tascam DR-680 or something similar with multiple inputs. Take the direct feeds out of the 552 for each mic. If this is a low budget project there is a good chance that the talent could talk over each others lines. If by chance it's the two lavs you're mixing on channel 2 you'll never be able to get clean sound. I take the direct feeds post fade from my 552 so that I'm controlling the levels on set to make sure I get good levels for each mic. Then in post I can mix and tweak. If you can find a used DR-680 you might be able to pick it up and then sell it after the project for the same amount or close to the same. I do a lot of small independent productions both on the sound side as well as cinematography and having each mic on a separate channel and mixing in post is the only way I would do it.

Are you going to be booming and mixing? What type of project is it? In any case, one of the most important things is to go to any practices and blocking sessions that you can. It will help you determine where you can boom from. It will also give you an idea of what type of dynamics your gong to have to deal with.
 
I am a post person so...

I would suggest that you either cut one mic or get more tracks. Anything you combine in production is going to be a nightmare for post. MAYBE if you have two characters who never talk at the same time (or move when the other is talking) but lets get real.

Now it has been done, but by long time professionals on shoots with experienced actors and directors.

You will be gone by then but I can pretty much guarantee that if you mix mics, post will be using your name as a curse word.
 
It's not like the recording section of the 552 is chopped liver. 2 lavs mixed and a boom on the second track is not out of the norm for a smaller production. As the op pointed out, this is low budget.......keep this in perspective.

Grant
 
Anyone who can't mix two lav mics together should not be doing the job in my opinion, make sure you get voice levels and for a low budget putting boom on one channel and mixed lavs on the second should be ample for audio post!
 
Here's some more info. Luckily for me there's only 2 character at a time except for the very last scene. Now, should I lav both or just one person. The talents definitely going to talk over each other line since there are arguments scene.
 
Gary, it would be easy to mix the two lavs into one channel as long as they don't talk over each others lines. As Noiz2 said, that's when the problems come in.

Victor, perhaps you could barrow an inexpensive two channel recorder. That would give you the ability to record three separate channels. I would recommend using lavs on the two people and then the boom becomes a backup. For the scene where you'll have more than just the two the boom becomes the mic for the third person but beware that the sound of the boomed mic will be quite different that the lavs. It will take a little post work to make them match. Get some good room tone in case you have to ADR in a few lines.
 
Guys this has been done without issue for many many years. It's not that big a deal. In fact some of the best movies of all time had the audio recorded to a single channel. If you are recording Lavs and boom at the same time just pan your boom hard left and your Lavs hard right.
 
David, the problem isn't separating the boom and the lavs it's separating the two lav recorded on one channel when both actors on the lavs are talking at the same time. Can it be done, yes. But, you will limit your ability to get clean dialog recording with that. Making it harder, if the scene is an argument you're going to be dealing with a lot of quick changes in the actors volumes. As part of the crew I never want to be the reason a take might not be usable.
 
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I guess I'm just an old fart who is used to working with dialog from a single track. And to be very honest, I would rather work with a properly recorded singe track any day over a fist full of amateurishly recorded isos.
 
David, I agree. It can be done and it isn't that hard if you've got some experience. Imagine working with a poorly recorded mix though (I'm not saying that the OP would do a bad job). For a first time gig I would remove the stress. But then, I always tend to error on the safe side. I don't like taking chances.
 
With you current set-up; wide shots: split the lavs (no boom, it would be useless anyway). For CUs: boom and two lavs together.
Beware of phase issues with the lavs if the actors are in close proximity. An experienced boom op would be recommended if you have to mix the lavs on-the-fly. OTOH, a cheapo H1 or 2 could be used for a third or forth track.
 
Actually I would also say look at this in perspective.

Can two actors talking on top of each other on a single track be separated in post? NO. Even with lots of time and expensive tools if they are mixed they are mixed.

You can't separate two actors stepping on each others lines on a boom mic either. Though at least you are not picking up the others "noise".

Films used to be recorded all in mono. True, but we are not talking about wireless lavs then either. And who was recording that? Experienced mixers with an experienced boom op working with an experienced director directing experienced actors who knew how to not step on each other in the reverses.

If this was that situation the OP would not be posting here.

They were also recording in 15 min. rolls of 1/4" tape on a multi thousand dollar recorder fed by an expensive mixer. And post was done with a razor blade.
But we are not there any more.

I had a film where the "sound person" boomed an outdoor scene from about 50 ft so he wouldn't get in the shot. That was also useless and had to be ADR'd.

So IF this were asked on Jeff Wexlers site by an experienced mixer I would agree with you. An experienced mixer can work miracles. You still have the overlapping problem, but an experienced director would also shoot other coverage of the shot so you would have some alts to pull from.

But as someone pointed out this is a LOW budget film. That means the director is not going to get all the coverage and alt takes they should (because they never do) and it means that the mixer is not that experienced and is probably not set up on a sound cart with a mixer with faders, and probably doesn't have a boom operator who is good and he has worked with for a long time (and probably doesn't have a communications feed from the mixer and may not even be able to monitor his(her) feed.

It also means the they are going to hit post with a jumble of tracks and no sound logs and probably no alt takes unless the guy really fights for them. The post person will be on a really tight schedule and a VERY low budget and they won't have the time to search through the alts (if they managed to get them) because it will take FOREVER to try and find what they are looking for with no logs. They can't hand it off to an assistant to do it because for the rate they are doing this for they can't hire an assistant. If they are lucky they got handles and an OMF (though I have gotten a "stereo mix") from the picture editor. And of course they got it all a week and a half before the Sundance deadline which the director HAS to make so they can get famous.

So if I get mixed lavs, I'm not happy. You want to do that on a film where I'm making scale and billing by the hour, cool.

So yes we should put it in perspective. And that means that you toss one small bone to the poor shmuch who is going to have to sort it all out on no money and no time. Or they will use your name in vain.
 
David W. Jones said:
I guess I'm just an old fart who is used to working with dialog from a single track. And to be very honest, I would rather work with a properly recorded singe track any day over a fist full of amateurishly recorded isos.
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I'm also an old fart, but that is probably the wrong comparison. If you would have gotten amateurishly recorded iso's then your other option is an amateurishly recorded mix.

Now which do you chose? At least with the iso's you have a chance.

OP, don't mean to impugn the quality of your work. I'm assuming that since you are asking here you are not tremendously experienced and that even with the best intents there are going to be some oopses. Even experienced professionals have their share of oopses.

Also many folks will read this who are less experienced than you and they will make a lot more oopses. Mixed tracks make it very difficult for post to mitigate the damage caused by oopses.

The easier you make it for the folks down the chain the better they will make you sound.

Folks mixed tracks because they had to not because they wanted to. The minute multitrack recorders became practical in the field they stated to get used. I seriously doubt that on any professional feature today you will find a mixer who is recording to a two track recorder. Doc./ ENG yes, though not always. For the Dalai Lama we were running 12 tracks of iso and a mix track (mostly for a reference feed to the cameras). "Flags of Our Fathers" used BoomRecorder so they were certainly using more than two tracks.
 
Point well taken from Noiz. I do mostly corporate work and didn't consider at all that the op is doing drama. My tunnel vision was wearing blinders.

Grant
 
Thanks or all your information Noize. You are right about everything except for logs... I will have logs for the track to help post :)

So I'm asking the production to get the direct out cable from the 552 so I can get the post guys some ISO maybe going into h4n. I'm also going to talk to the director and try our best not to have the actors cross on each other's line during the argument scene.
 
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