Shooting with bus engines on

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dasonras

Well-known member
I'm am outlining a short film that takes place almost entirely on a school bus. Basically a comedy about kids going to school So obviously i am presented with the issue of sound. I am trying to create the effect that we are driving, only problem is that the bus engines overpower the dialogue.

Any suggestions?


My only way i see it possible is if i shoot the film with the bus stopped and bump the iris up so that the windows are so overexposed that you can't tell that we are not driving.
 
Park bus in a large studio/garage. Set up screen outside windows that are going to be in particular shot, project image from moving vechicle on screen, and shoot your scene.

Obviously shoot some test shots first.

Good luck.
 
actually that was an idea that i originally had. I was going to set up some rare projection images on screens surrounding the bus. But i realized it may be more of hassle.
 
Well, without knowing your shot list, you don't need a projection screen around the whole bus but just move it to cover windows in each shot. If you need some wide shots you can pick those up on the moving bus and pick up wild tracks while in the "studio" to lay over the moving bus shots.

It will take a lot of pre-production planning but it should be possible.

best
 
What about towing a bus. That seemed contradictory just writing it, but it might be possible.
Peace,

-Harry
 
dasonras said:
My only way i see it possible is if i shoot the film with the bus stopped and bump the iris up so that the windows are so overexposed that you can't tell that we are not driving.
Click to expand...

Also: the chances are VERY good that no bumping of the iris will be necessary to blow out the windows. You're more likely going to need to gel the windows to keep them from turning into bright white squares.

Dan
 
yeah-
i did a music video on a bus once. i shot super8 negative, which has more exposure latitude than video. even with some lighting in the bus (i think maybe we used a lowel softlite,) the windows were so much hotter than the interior that they were totally blown out. of course, this all depends on weather, direction you're shooting, etc.

also, if seems a lot more convenient to me to go green screen outside the windows than rear projection. it is a huge pain to shoot rear projection. are you gonna project r.p. with an lcd and video sources? you'll probably see the pixellation from the lcd grid. 16mm? you'd need to come up with a bunch of 16mm footage of roads going by, in different directions for the different windows. if you watch a movie where car secenes are done with rp, you'll find that even the major studios, with tons of financing, lighting, and huge crews, never manage to pull it off without looking cheesy and totally obvious.

i recall an article in american cinematographer abot spike lee's "get on the bus." i believe that rather than tow the bus (which is standard practice for moving vehicle shots,) they actually drove the thing. although that bus was totally customized for rigging lights, cameras, etc. you might see if you can find that old issue.

anyhow, good luck.
 
Trying to blow the windows out with exposure or using rear screen projection (a very expensive proposition) or green/blue screen is risky in that the final results may not look very natural and may be hard to maintain consistentcy.

I would suggest shooting on the moving bus. First, I would get very good lav mics on the talent (wireless or wired) and use a boom as close as you can. Second I would put sound baffleing material all over the bus. Use blankets, foam, what ever it takes to try an quit the interior. Third I would coordiinate with the driver so that during takes, you are not accelerating, which would be the loudest engine sounds. On the roll up to the take, have the driver get up as much speed as possible/practical then when ready for a take, have him get off the gas and coast for as long as neccessary to get the take.

I also would suggest getting as much wild dialog as possible, while driving, while coasting, with engines off, everything. Then I would be prepared to replace some dialog in post. (Getting the wild dialog will help to lessen this).

Good Luck.
 
Well, there are many different approaches to doing this, I would avoid green screen if you are shooting in anything other then film. The 4:1:1 color space of DV makes it very unfriendly to green screen. Even 4:2:2 can give you some inconsistent results.

Rear projecting is actually pretty simple on standard car scenes and the results (IMO) are far less obvious then green screen in 4:1:1 color space. Working around the various windows of a bus would be far more complicated but my guess would be the end results would be faster and less expensive then shooting in a running bus. I really can't imagine getting any usuable dialog with a diesel engine chugging along less then 10 feet from your mic. Wild dialog would help here but would leave you with tough editing decisions. I would run some test to find out what works best for your script and resources.

Of course the best of both worlds (sound and picture) would be to tow the vehicle. Never tried that with a bus and could be quite expensive and tricky. I would at least place a few calls to see the viablity of this option.

Whatever you do, let us know how it went. :)
 
wabbit said:
Well, there are many different approaches to doing this, I would avoid green screen if you are shooting in anything other then film. The 4:1:1 color space of DV makes it very unfriendly to green screen. Even 4:2:2 can give you some inconsistent results.

Rear projecting is actually pretty simple on standard car scenes and the results (IMO) are far less obvious then green screen in 4:1:1 color space. Working around the various windows of a bus would be far more complicated but my guess would be the end results would be faster and less expensive then shooting in a running bus. I really can't imagine getting any usuable dialog with a diesel engine chugging along less then 10 feet from your mic. Wild dialog would help here but would leave you with tough editing decisions. I would run some test to find out what works best for your script and resources.

Of course the best of both worlds (sound and picture) would be to tow the vehicle. Never tried that with a bus and could be quite expensive and tricky. I would at least place a few calls to see the viablity of this option.

Whatever you do, let us know how it went. :)
Click to expand...

I agree that towing the bus would be the best choice.

However, I totally disagree with rear projection being a simple procedure. Rear projection is very complicated. First, shooting the background plates requires matching focal lengths and depths of field. Then the projection must be be synced to the frame rate of the camera or flicker and/or background exposure fluctuation will be a problem. In the traditional studio set-up large ac motors, synced to line voltage were used. Also, the projectors must be very bright, usually arc light or xeon light and must be used in a space with enough "throw" to get the right image size. Finding the right screen material, one that does not produce hotspots or have visible grain would be expensive. Also, lighting on the set must be highly controlled so as to not have any spill contaminate the rear projected image. The Projector must also be sound isolated so that you do not trade the sound of the bus engine for the sound of a projector. And on and on and on. For the cost of getting a realistiic, reliable rear projection set-up, you could build a mock up of the bus on a flat bed trailer and tow it around with a Shotmaker deluxe... . Let's leave rear projection to the history books.

Tow the bus....
 
You make a good point with the sync issues. I was involved with a DV project many years ago (XL1) and shot with 29.97. With synch-scan the flicker was no problem. If shooting in 24p I would imagine the filcker problem might arise, don't know, never seen it done with video. The results with the XL1 were very impressive and far better then 4:1:1 green screen.

The bus towing would be great if possible on any sort of budget (would imagine it would take a semi to tow the darn thing). I don't know...tough situation. Maybe Rosestar idea of getting the shots on a long downhill. I certainly don't envy you Dasonras.

Maybe the kids could be going to school while it's still dark and you could just shoot the whole thing poor man's process. :)

Best of luck
 
You know, clean dialog on a bus may be the least of your worries. I have two words for you...

Child Actors...

Not for the faint of heart, you are a better man than I.

Good luck.
 
What mics are you using? I think driving the bus is doable with the right setup of mics and sound dampening of the bus
 
I'm going to throw my hat in with the "Tow it" option. You could probably get a heavy duty tow truck and operator (the kind you see hauling broken down trucks and buses) for a reasonable rate for a couple of days (certainly no more than the cost of renting the bus itself). But, don't forget to drive around in the bus for a while gathering wild audio/ambient sounds of the engine so you can layer it back in in post.

Phil
 
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