Shooting Outside, in the Sun

D

DDirector

Veteran
So, here are a few scenarios that I'm usually stuck with:

Setting: Down town City between tall buildings.

Subject is walking along the sidewalk. The subject is either well exposed or under exposed, while the background is the opposite of the subject.
Or worse yet, when the subject is well exposed and the background is both over exposed and under exposed from the shade.

The shade is the worst part. Do I expose for the BG in the middle between the sun and shade, and then light the subject for that middle tone?

Hard to explain are there are different scenarios to name.
If it were overcast, sure, it would be easier to pull off, as there is generally 1 tone and no shadow problems. BUT, then again everything looks flat and boring. So, shooting in the sun with shade seems better.

I'm not sure.
Should I be shooting in the sun or overcast? Usually I don't have control, and have to shoot for the weather condition I don't want, so how do I deal with it in both situations? - Moving and non-moving subject(s)
 
With your description I imagine this is a long shot (subject and surroundings in frame).. As the talent is walking, you are concerned about light as they walk along from open to shaded area's.

You have to first make the decision as to what is the most important aspect of the shot. I should imagine that it's the talent. If that's the case then you ensure they are properly exposed. Can the scene not be cut to where the talent is walking in the shaded area's and cut to a medium (head & shoulders). Reposition diffuse the sun or add light with screens/reflectors.. Then cut back to long to a part where she steps out of shade enters a bright area, use an ND and expose for the talent for those steps along the sidewalk.

A day that has a few clouds in the sky are the days you have a better chance of carrying out the shot successfully, or you could invest in some grad filters..
 
DDirector said:
So, here are a few scenarios that I'm usually stuck with:

Setting: Down town City between tall buildings.

Subject is walking along the sidewalk. The subject is either well exposed or under exposed, while the background is the opposite of the subject.
Or worse yet, when the subject is well exposed and the background is both over exposed and under exposed from the shade.
Click to expand...


In almost all cases this problem is a problem because the nolo budget filmmaker can't get enough light to balance the extremes.

If the shot is 'wide', there's probably not much one can do, other than 'light' the talent. If the shot is narrow, you may get away with using black mesh behind the talent to cut the extreme of the background that is in bright sun.

For talent in bright sun, background shadowed city scape, perhaps screening the talent would also work.

Some time ago, someone put up a clip from a TV show production, where there was obviously a walking 'cookie' canopy being used to give the talent some 'shade' while walking along the side walk. There were trees in the background and the side
of the walkway... but they didn't really look like they over hung the sidewalk all that much.

But if the shots were pretty quick, the ordinary viewer would probably not have picked that up...

In any case, anything like this requires that you have proper permitting because this is not something that one would do 'guerrilla' style...
 
Hmm yeah...
Yes, subject is the most important. So, yes, Id want to expose to them.

When I see movies, the shade is not too dark and not bright, it looks real. And where the sunny spots are, they also look good. Not over exposed.
I was just outside with my DSLR trying to do the same. I know the dynamic range isn't as good as film, but I still tried to capture a good sunny spot and shade area.
But, it still looks amateurish.

I have a feeling its a dynamic range problem (But, I mean, it shouldn't be that big of a deal with a DSLR)
and I mainly think is grading.

I've watched a few random trailer and the actors always seem to be in the shaded parts than the bright parts. (This is when its not overcast)
But, if its overcast, then I guess its easier to light, as there's no over/under exposure.
 
When shooting projects outside in cities guerilla style, we have many facets and limitations to overcome. You have to be flexible and open to changing circumstances. If there is a partcular shot you have in mind, then get out and shoot it... Look in the viewfinder and if what you see is acceptable then shoot it, if not find an area that will be more appropriate so the talent is shaded and maybe have the sun behind as a back light and bounce back with reflectors...The important thing is to experiment...

Most importantly if you want the best shot outside, choose the correct time of day. The golden hour can eliminate amost all of your problems
 
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Scott Freestyle said:
When shooting projects outside in cities guerilla style...
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No saying any of this is guerilla style.

I was just watching the inception trailer. There's plenty of outdoor scenes.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8hP9D6kZseM
0:20
It has both shadow and sunlight, but it doesnt look over exposed nor underexposed that much. If I were to try to do this, it would probably be over and under exposed by way more, and look bad.

0:42
The actors are in the shadow while the sunlight all around them. It doesnt look all that bright though. So, lets say I were to light my actors in the shade like this, with the sunlight all around them. How would I do that?
And what if they walk into the sunlight just after?

0:45
Is is just me or does it look like a square shape shadow of a silk screen or scrim on the ground?

BASICALLY what Im asking is how to judge exposure. If I can get the exposure set for the whole set. I can work my way around to set exposure for my actors by working backwards. Either adding light, or shading them off.
 
I have been preparing for a similar scenario on a low budget, I just made big frames of PVC that I can clip muslin or other fabrics onto, and have my assistants hold them how into the shot (I don't even have to buy c stands;)) In preparation, I've done some tests to learn the effect of bouncing and diffusing different materials with the sun. You really just have to eye your picture to see why and how bouncing or diffusing different things changes the image.. For wide shots, it's harder to achieve since high budget movies can just use hmi's. But with closer shots you have more options to get good results. Some effective lighting might be hard sunlight diffused as key, and a white board for fill. Or you can use the sun as a rim/kicker, bounce back onto the face (more defined with silver). The possibilities are endless. It is very possible to get cinematic looks in most scenarios if you just prepare for for the available light.. If you get at least some sun/fill on your actors faces, the backgrounds shouldn't be too far off.
 
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DDirector said:
Hmm yeah...
Yes, subject is the most important. So, yes, Id want to expose to them.

When I see movies, the shade is not too dark and not bright, it looks real. And where the sunny spots are, they also look good. Not over exposed.
I was just outside with my DSLR trying to do the same. I know the dynamic range isn't as good as film, but I still tried to capture a good sunny spot and shade area.
But, it still looks amateurish.

I have a feeling its a dynamic range problem (But, I mean, it shouldn't be that big of a deal with a DSLR)
and I mainly think is grading.

I've watched a few random trailer and the actors always seem to be in the shaded parts than the bright parts. (This is when its not overcast)
But, if its overcast, then I guess its easier to light, as there's no over/under exposure.
Click to expand...

Here's a book, "Motion Picture and Video Lighting: Second Ed." by Blain Brown, with a 'preview' copy via google books.

http://books.google.com/books?id=7uZvndb7_gwC&printsec=frontcover#v=onepage&q&f=false

Page 28 has a picture of the street setup.

They're using a 18K with a large softbox to give a 'shadowless' fill on a 'street scene'... Unless you have friends... this sort of thing is not something most nolo filmmkers can do.

There are things the nolo filmmaker can do, such as bounce rigs, and DIY frame construction, etc. But that takes up space, and so this is not going to be for a run-and-gun operation.

The DSLR's have come a long way in dynamic range, but one can still do stuff with Film Film, that is only now becoming available at the high end Alexa type cameras.

The Canons and the GH-1 are still in the 'limited' dynamic range category, and while people have found ways to compensate... it will be a problem.
 
The 18k...Exactly what I would use in such situation, but who has access to an 18k with chimera? Sure let me take it out of my ass, and while at it let me pull out that Alexa as well ^^,

What you can do is get a shinyboard (4x4 reflector) or mirror, toss it on a combo and from across the street (or somewhere a bit farther out) just be panning it as they walk, so they have a constant beam, we've done that once before, just make sure its consistent. We also threw a silk on a 6x6 and walked it to soften the light up a bit from the shinyboard.

Another way is to pick up a small HMI, something thats handholdable and just walk with it. A joker could work well, some use an anton battery back.

But if you don't have access to the hmi, I think a shinyboard is your best bet, and even then have someone walk next to the camera on the opposite side holding a bounceboard to reflect some of that beam from the shinyboard onto their face.
Also who says you can't use an ultrabounce? Trick is to aim it while they walk, if the shinyboard's beam is too narrow, you can try using maybe an 8x8 ultrabounce or a silk and walk it (Watch out for the wind)
 
Yes, but its not lighting the subject(s) that is the biggest concern. You can bounce light at them, or flag some light off or scrim it down.
Its the issue of having them in a setting where the BG has both sunny and shaded parts.
It feels as though the sunny parts are over and shaded are under. While character is well exposed

Its more or less exposing for the sunny side, but a tad under. The shadows will be slightly brighter then, and the actors (if under the shade) will not be too under exposed.
In respect to the IRE scale, if I recall correctly, skintone should be at 70IRE (I could be wrong) and if the subject is in the shade with sun behind them. They wont be at that 70IRE, but lower. If they were, the sun would be way over exposed then.

So, basically, what IRE is acceptable for skintones, outside in the shade?

Its a different situation if the subject is in the sun, and there is sun/shade behind them. The sun would also be well exposed, but then the shade would be well underexposed.
If subject is in the sun, this is where scrims or large diffusion comes in to reduce/soften light. Its more of the BG having too much over/underexposure - in this situation, it would be underexposure in the shadows
 
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keylight said:
Can you share a short clip showing the results? Thanks!
Click to expand...

I just Grip buddy, last time I looked through a viewfinder was about a year ago. Don't have the clip, sorry :S

@DDirector-

Seems you've got one of those impossible shots, that you're either going to have to be exposed to the sunny side or the dark side. Have you considered shooting elsewhere? If you're stuck with that shot you may have to expose in between, and do some playing around in post. Hopefully what you're shooting with has good flexibility. Isnt there one camera out there that shoots HDR video?
 
A popular way to deal with bright exteriors with film (and high DR digital cameras) is to overexpose. Then printing down and underdeveloping overexposed emulsions leads to a low contrast look with washed (how washed depends on how much you overexposed) and not very dark shadows. Essentially, you are bringing shadow detail over the toe where there is full tonal resolution (linear density change over log exposure). You can do a similar trick with high DR digital cameras.

Unfortunately, DSLRs have very limited highlights range. (More on dynamic range here.) This means that overexposure won't work and highlights will clip easily.
You still have options though. For example, with Canon DSLR cameras, you can use ALO, Highlights tone priority or a flat transfer curve. ALO tweaks the transfer curve and opens up the shadows, HTP extends the highlights range a bit (it does a digital pull, trading off with increased noise in the blacks), and a flat transfer curve will allow more detail in the shadows (trading with mids detail), partly simulating the forementioned low contrast look.

Exposure-wise you can put skin 2 and even 3 stops over mid gray in bright sun (reflective readings). Except that your DSLR won't have that much latitude and will blow to white a little above 3 stops (around 3 1/3 for prev gen Canon cameras). Limited range aside, with incident readings, overexposing 1/2 to 3/4 stops is ok if you want to convey a hot feel.
With shadows, it is not unnatural to be 2 to 3 stops under in deep shade. You will have to do some tests and see what you like though, if you are set on a specific transfer curve just shoot a few headshots playing with exposure.

Also, avoiding midday may be a good idea. Shoot in the morning or late afternoon if possible. Lower sun will give more texture, better shadows and more manageable scene contrast range. Of course, this all depends on the location and what time is appropraite for your angles.
 
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