shooting a band rehearsal: audio question

Ldom

Ldom

Active member
Hi there,

I'm working on a documentary on band rehearsals. I'm going to shoot it with my brand new hvx. For the audio setup, I was thinking in plugging the hvx to the main output of the band's sound system using an XLR to Jack adapter such as these ones:

http://www.ramelectronics.net/HTML/adapters-xlr.html

Will it work? If yes, is there any precautions to take before plugging it to the hvx (other than setting the proper level)? Is there a possibility of hurting the camera if (newbie worries...) the sound peaks?

Thanks for your help,
Laurent
 
You are right to be careful. Make sure you switch the camera's inputs to "line" level on the front. You may want to use a mixer in-between the band's mixer and the camera.
 
Here's another tip I learned the hard way. I was shooting a band playing in a club, and pulled an audio feed from the club's mixing board. Found later that it didn't sound very good at all. Reason? The board was mixed to provide a well balanced sound based on the room's acoustics and the placement of the speakers. That's not necessarily the best mix for going straight into a recording device. I actually got better sound from the two Samson C03's that I had connected to my DVX100a.

Good luck!
 
will indeed not always working... depends in what kind of place the band is playing and what kind of soundsetting it's require to generate a full warm sound... for ex. if the highs get absorbed by the walls, then the band have to adjust the highs and put it much higher then normal... this will effect the line out to your recording too... but it can be done if you have the right equipment...

each input signal have to be splitted into 2 seperate signals (watch out with the phantom power, one of the two lines have the PP to be blocked!), one singal goes to the PA system & the other to my MIDI interface which is connected to my Apple by Firewire... with this interface I can record each instrument seperate in a different track... after the show, I just simply remix the recording into one track & job done!

check www.m-audio.com

other option is just to hire a professional to record the audio & use his recording as audiotrack for your video....
 
Hiring a sound pro is your best bet.

Otherwise, bring a production mixer with solid limiters. Bring a line-level feed from their mixer into your mixer, and you'll probably want to hang a cardioid mic or two to capture any conversations that aren't going into the rehearsal mics.

And, of course, monitor everything on headphones (eg. Sony MDR-7506). Without reliable headphone monitoring, you won't know if your audio is distorting.
 
I was thinking in plugging the hvx to the main output of the band's sound system

Absolutely do NOT depend on this. i am currently a location sound mixer. in my previous life, i was a punk rocker, touring, recording, etc for 10 years. you definitely dont want to rely on the bands equipment for your sounds. Often times there are buzzes, snaps, cracles, and pops simply because the system is not set properly. in addition, many bands use the mixer/pa for vocals only and crank instruments to match pa levels. Each room will be different, each band set up is different, and the sweet spots for mic placement will be different.

using tried and true... hire a sound pro :thumbup:

chances are, if you cant afford to do that, i'm guessing you wont have the $$$ for a mixer. if you do, check out the sound devices mix pre.

for mics to use, read up over at taperssection.com

on the cheap with decent results(from what i have read and never tried) the oktava mics are worth checking out

for mic placement, it all depends. bands sometimes practice in a circle and sometimes like live. also depends on the music style, size of room, acoustical treatment etc...
 
SMuir said:
And, of course, monitor everything on headphones (eg. Sony MDR-7506). Without reliable headphone monitoring, you won't know if your audio is distorting.
Click to expand...

Another good point. And here's another thing I learned the hard way -- put the headphones on early, and keep them on. At the gig I was recording, I was using some "extreme isolation" headphones. But the band only wanted the 2nd set they played recorded. By the time I put on the headphones and tried to monitor the sound, my hearing had already been deafened by the volume of the music -- I couldn't hear a thing in the 'phones.
 
chapelgrovefilms said:
Another good point. And here's another thing I learned the hard way -- put the headphones on early, and keep them on. At the gig I was recording, I was using some "extreme isolation" headphones. But the band only wanted the 2nd set they played recorded. By the time I put on the headphones and tried to monitor the sound, my hearing had already been deafened by the volume of the music -- I couldn't hear a thing in the 'phones.
Click to expand...
Which headset are you using? Still need to find a good one which can isolate my ears from the big sound arround me...
 
Thanks a lot to everyone. Of course I'll hire a pro when the budget will allow it. In the meantime, I'm going to stay away from the band's output as suggested and use two mics (probably Oktava), one for the overall sound and one on a boom for the players when they talk.

As to using a mixer, what would be a reasonable choice (in terms of price/performance ratio)?

Thanks,
Laurent
 
Laurent, if you use the two mics as you describe, it sounds as though you're going to lose the full stereo quality of the performance. I'm thinking for real stereo, you need two mics placed in a y-pattern. Maybe some of the audio pros here can talk more intelligently than I can about that. But good luck! Let us know how it turns out.
 
Ldom said:
Hi there,

I'm working on a documentary on band rehearsals. I'm going to shoot it with my brand new hvx. For the audio setup, I was thinking in plugging the hvx to the main output of the band's sound system . . .
Click to expand...

Main output of what?

You'd need the line output. The main output might very well be for the speakers, which would be a Bad Thing.
 
If you ask their soundman for a balanced mic or line level output most will help you out. I've had some guys give me one of the aux/mon outputs and give me the mix I wanted. Of course this takes some pre-prod and some phone calls to the bands mixer, but it will work for you.
Good luck
A.G.
 
I found this (cheap) mixer: Samson S Mix

Looks nice to me as I'd be able to use it to get both the XLR boom mic and the band's output in, and at the same time have a monitoring headphone. Anyone with some experience or advise on this kind of puppy?

Thanks in advance,
Laurent
 
The Samson mixer you linked would be barely serviceable.

An ENG/EFP mixer like the Sound Devices 442 or the PSC Alphamix will give you much better preamps, as well as a feature set more in line with the needs of film and video production. They're also portable, run off battery power, and are much faster to set up.

There are a number of very good reasons for the significant price difference.
 
Of course, you're right, at that price, that was too good to be true...

Anything worth looking at in the 500-1000 range? Otherwise, I may rent one but it's not easy for me as the rental shops are far away from our location.

Thanks,
Laurent
 
i have done a bunch of what you are trying to do, not saying i'm an expert but here is what i can share from what i have learned...some of it the hard way!

always try to get a feed off the soundboard. if you get a good feed it will be super clean and it will make a world of difference when you goto edit.

don't JUST get a clean feed...even if you get the worlds cleanest feed off of the sound board and it is 100% perfectly clear and defect free you have GOT to have another mic/track.

i say that because if you only have the clean feed you will have zero crowd noise and it would be like watching a concert dvd where you see all the fans but the audio is from a studio album.

you want a minimum of one clear recording from the soundboard and one mic somewhere to pickup the general noise in the room and then in post you play with mixing like 75% clean feed and 25% crowd/ambient live feed.

it is amazing to play with that and see what ratio sounds best to you.

but one thing to always keep in mind, test this ahead of time and if you are doing this FOR the band make them do some work, hook-up with the sound guy (who hopefully is with the band and not just the house guy who you can't get in contact with and who might just consider you a minor annoyance like a fly in his control room!

the house sound guy can be your best friend or he can bone you as my canadian friends like to say.

i did a live show once where the opening acts used the headliners sound system and the sound guy was also in the headlining act and he gave me a great feed which i fed via wireless to one of my dvx-100a's and we tested during sound check and everything was great.

there were two acts before the headliner and i got their sound 100% but the sound for the headline act was distorted in a strange way.

totally sucked because for everyone else i had a nice mix of ambient live sound and the soundboard clean sound to play with in post, but for the headliners all i had was the live sound it was to all go into one piece and none of it would match!

moral is things change even after you've tested them, test, practice, read about other peoples mistakes and mishaps and try to learn.

for isolating headphones if you do it a LOT you can get a great setup that i think remote audio makes, they take a pair of dave clark aviation headsets and put the electronics of a pair of sony 7506's inside

i haven't used them but i have heard it works quite well. i have a pair of the david clark aviation headset but i don't do super loud stuff often so i don't need a solution that intense.

another great option is the etymotics headphones, they look like the generic ipod ear buds but they have been making their headphones for like 10+ years now.

their site is www.etymotic.com - www.etymotics.com is someone who is leaching off of people going to the wrong site!

what is unique to the etymotics is they have silicone tips that come in a couple sizes and you actually put them into your ear, effectively blocking the canal so outside noises are kept out quite a bit.

the great thing is you can goto an ENT (ear, nose and throat doctor) and many of them make these molds of your ear that are normally for hearing aids but they also make them for musicians. they call them oddly enough, musician molds!

etymotics has a kit that lets you take off the silicone earplugs and put the etymotics into the musician molds that are custom made for your ear!

btw, if you are around loud music or aircraft or heavy machinery you can get a simple set of these molds made for $100 or less that just go into your ears and they greatly reduce the levels coming in.

you can goto a concert and still hear everything fine but when you exit the venue and take them out your ears are nice and happy and not fatigued like they would have been.

i have a pair of the plain noise reducing ones i got years ago and they are worth their weight in gold.

i have spent a lot of time around live music that was way too loud and aircraft (specifically 1950's behemoths with twin radial engines - think dc3 like) and i had my hearing tested and it is way above average for someone my age (i just turned 40)

as far as i know all healthcare insurance covers a trip to the audiologist for a hearing test every so many years.

matthew
 
SMuir said:
The Samson mixer you linked would be barely serviceable.

An ENG/EFP mixer like the Sound Devices 442 or the PSC Alphamix will give you much better preamps, as well as a feature set more in line with the needs of film and video production. They're also portable, run off battery power, and are much faster to set up.

There are a number of very good reasons for the significant price difference.
Click to expand...
These Sound Devices & PSC mixers have a price of $1800 and above... but what is just a nice standard mixer, a ATI, Rolls or a another brand? For the very serious stuff I hire a professional soundman with his own equipment... easy for me & good for the client. But for some clients with a smaller budget I like to have a good and simple audio mixer... which one you would advice to buy.... for the range of $400-$600

thx
 
matthewd5, I own a pair of etymotic ER-6Is too and they're amazing. I use them for monitoring audio on my camera when using my external mic to prevent low or high audio levels and they certianly do the job.
Anyways, I think this mixer http://www.mackie.com/products/onyx1620/index.html might be decent. My school uses one of them for live shoots so I'm assuming it would be good for you.
 
yes if you ever see pictures of the guy who use sound carts you see some mackie and if it isn't mackie it is really high end stuff.

ask oleg!

the new mackie stuff is really nice. they have a new line that just came out recently.

matthew
 
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