Shockmount Bands Losing Elasticity

Although not loved by everyone here, the K-Tek KSM mounts have served me well. They make a short version (KSSM) also which works great for small condensors.

If memory serves correctly, they make the rubbers in two variations of stiffness.

For Chads application, they make a "oem mic holder" adapter which the KSM mount will screw to directly.

Grant
 
BRH said:
When a poster always recommends the same brand over and over... he is getting support from the manufacture.....this is called....

SPAM
Click to expand...

Not true.

If a manufacturer makes a product that is better than others at a lower price then a user will often recommend that brand again and again - because it is the best product for the job.

The Rycote "lyre" is streets ahead of any other shockmount and is patented so it can't legally be copied.

The closest are the Cinela Oxix which is excellent, almost as good (may be equal now they have changed from steel to hytrel), but is a lot more expensive.

The Shure donut is also good for mics that fit it.

But the "lyre" is still the best on the market, whatever the price.

If you understood the science you will know why.
 
Rippie said:
Isn't this more of an opinion than fact?
I see you write this quite often but always present it as a fact.


Of course there are certain things in our line of work that are black and white/ right and wrong but a piece of gear like this is much more subjective.

Im not saying the lyre invision stuff isn't great but this sounds like someone saying
" the xxx is the best video camera out there", not "in my opinion this is the best video camera out there for my needs"

Obviously MY opinion.
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I state it as a fact because it *is* a fact.

It's not like the difference between microphones which can be subjective, or a microphone chosen for its "colour". Or the difference between video cameras.

The science behind the design of the Rycote "lyre" mounts mean that they are just better (and this is regardless of price) - as I said in my post above, the Cinela Osix mount is just about equal. It was very close with the steel springs, but they have now changed the material to improve the design - but they are moire expensive.

The "lyre" is patented so it cannot legally be copied.

Many top microphone manufacturers are having Rycote do OEM specific versions for them as they are much better than the old elastic suspensions.

Anyone who has the technical equipment to do proper tests and comparisons will see that the Rycote "lyre" suspensions are superior - even though the old elastic suspensions may be "adequate", the "lyre" is the far better solution.

I have already ditched all my old elastic mounts and don't even use the expensive Neumann ones - because the "lyre" is better.



There is nothing subjective about how a shock mount works and how it prevents structure-born vibrations getting to the mic. It can all be tested and measured.



I suppose it's a little bit like the Dyson being a better vacuum cleaner because of the cyclone technology that just made it suck better and not lose the suction - and now everyone else is copying their technology because it works and is better.
 
Thats funny because I know a number of people that don't like the Lyre system.
How could that even be possible.
I mean its a FACT that its the best right? Oh wait, it was the other peoples OPINIONS
that they DIDN'T like it.

I love how you continue to say it's a "fact" then 2 seconds later you say
the cinela is "just about equal". Yea that doesn't sound like an opinion at all.
Sounds very fact based.

I have serious doubts that you personally use all these different mounts in the field
on a regular basis which is really the only way to know if a particular mount is going
to work for your needs or not.

It's amazing to me though that you continue to state personal preferences as
absolute facts and actually come back a 2nd time and insist again what you say is a "fact".

Back on subject, all anyone can do here if looking for a mount is ask
people for their opinions on what works for them, then take that information to make
their own decisions.
 
If you ask me, then... Wait a minute you didn't ask me. But in a way you kind of did. But you did not actually say Ced... Uhh wait maybe..... Hell I forgot what I was going to say.
 
LOL. :D Personally I would still try the rubber bands, for temporary solution. But if you are looking for a long term solution the look in to purchasing a better system like the Lyre, Rode, or other blimp system. I actually have a knock of the Rycote full blimp I found on ebay for around 150.00. It is not a bad unit but it could be better. I like the look of the Rode blimp, but have not worked with it so I can't give any real opinion on it's functionality. Also I am curious about the Lyre system and if things work out I might look into purchasing that system in the near future. But anyway that's my $0.02
 
Rippie said:
Thats funny because I know a number of people that don't like the Lyre system.
How could that even be possible.
I mean its a FACT that its the best right? Oh wait, it was the other peoples OPINIONS
that they DIDN'T like it.

I love how you continue to say it's a "fact" then 2 seconds later you say
the cinela is "just about equal". Yea that doesn't sound like an opinion at all.
Sounds very fact based.

I have serious doubts that you personally use all these different mounts in the field
on a regular basis which is really the only way to know if a particular mount is going
to work for your needs or not.

It's amazing to me though that you continue to state personal preferences as
absolute facts and actually come back a 2nd time and insist again what you say is a "fact".

Back on subject, all anyone can do here if looking for a mount is ask
people for their opinions on what works for them, then take that information to make
their own decisions.
Click to expand...


Let's get this straight - I don't state personal preferences as fact.

Do the measurements.

The "lyre" is patented and does the job better. The Cinela Osix works on the same sort of principle, which is why it is good, but springs have a resonance which is why the "lyre" was slightly better - but, as I said, the Osix has very recently changed material and I would think about equal the "lyre" - but it's a lot more expensive.

If someone does not like the "lyre" does not mean that it is not technically better, just that they don't like it.

You can say as an absolute that something is better if it is a measurable fact - like the "lyre" is. It's personal opinion if you like to use it or not, that's up to you.

I talk about and often recommend lots of things - but he "lyre" is the only one I put as fact and not opinion because it can be scientifically proved.

Why do you think that Rycote themselves dropped elastic and silicon O-rings if it was not better? Why do you think that many microphone manufacturers are getting Rycote to do OEM versions for them if it was not better?

I have used many mounts in the field and have ditched all the old ones in favour of the Rycote "lyres" because they are technically better - that's all.

You can read the article, with measurements, on shock-mounting HERE.
 
John,

I think part of the problem is that you say "it's better" and that is too general a statement. Putting a mic on a stand in an isolation chamber is "better" at reducing handling noise but it is not a "better" solution for field recording. So I do think the the odds are that lyre system is better at isolating than elastic bands but that does not nec mean that it is a "better" shock mount. It could be a royal pain to use, it could be very picky about how you set it up (and so only have a small window of operation where it is better at isolating), etc. There are a lot of reasons why it could be a better shock mount and still not be a better shock mount. And a lot of those reasons would have to do with personal use. So really you can't say something like a shock mount is "better" in a universal way except as an opinion. You can't "scientifically" prove anything with that big a variable. Well there may be a way but that isn't what they did. The tests are for isolation not usability studies. So that is why you get people who don't like it and why "better" is not an absolute.

Second siting a companies choice as proof of superiority is just silly. There are a ton of reasons companies make choices and the "best" choice for the customer is way down the list. The lyre is going to have a lot less support issues than elastic bands. Bands are pretty good but are constantly changing so the level of isolation they have is variable. And they get old and they can be a pain to replace (especially on older Rycote mounts). The Lyre is probably cheaper to make. It's new and "better" so you can charge a premium. Making it "better" is nice but they don't actually have much competition and the elastics supports do quite a good job.

If you switched because of charts and "specs" then I would not put too much stock in your opinion. I suspect you tried them because of the claims of "better" and actually switched because you liked the way they worked for you better. That is perfectly valid but has a fair amount of personal workflow involved.

Personally I put a lot of stock in the opinions of those I respect and very little in "facts". That seems silly but I was a physics major for a number of years and the "scientific" methods used to produce much of what is presented as "facts" leave a lot to be desired. And if you don't know how the test was set up the validity of the results are pretty questionable. On top of which most of these tests ask the question the asker knows will produce the best results. Asking the right question is often one of the most important aspects. For shock mounts used by people in the field, a usability study would be one of the big questions. Studies of mechanical isolation are valid to a point but ignore the VERY important factor of use in the field.

Anyway I think that IF you had said that better isolation was a "fact" rather than it being "better" as a fact you would not have gotten the reaction you did.

Sound is full of people stating facts that aren't so people tend to get a bit sensitive when someone starts using the "F" word.
 
Noiz2 said:
Anyway I think that IF you had said that better isolation was a "fact" rather than it being "better" as a fact you would not have gotten the reaction you did.
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OK - I agree with you on this.

In a nutshell - the "lyre" does not droop or bounce like elastic mounts - It has the best isolation in the plane that the microphone requires it - it does not deteriorate or lose its elasticity with age - it is extremely tough - it is measurably better at reducing structure-born vibration (with the sole exception of the Cinela Osix which, I think, may just equal it now).

Whether you prefer using it is a personal choice.
 
Once we figure out the whole anti-gravity thing, we won't need to have any materials in shock mounts... There will just be this mic floating in the air with nothing physical to transfer vibration. THAT would be the best shock mount ever! Um... IMO.
 
Chadfish said:
Once we figure out the whole anti-gravity thing, we won't need to have any materials in shock mounts... There will just be this mic floating in the air with nothing physical to transfer vibration. THAT would be the best shock mount ever! Um... IMO.
Click to expand...

Beam me up Chadfish ;~)
 
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