sgpro or brevis

moviemaker999

moviemaker999

Well-known member
hello, i am debating whether to buy the brevis or sgpro. I decided the m2 wasn't for me. I understand the brevis is brighter than the m2, but from what i researched the sgpro pro was sharper. at http://www.philipbloom.net/ the sgpro looks the sharpest. My question is is the sgpro with its shaarpness worth the wait. I don't have to have it now, but is it really that much better than the brevis. I know that the brevis sets up quicker but that does not matter much for my needs. All i care about is the final image. From http://www.philipbloom.net/ shootout the sgpro looks much sharper than the brevis. Has the brevis improved since this shootout.
 
I had a hard time deciding as well. At first I wanted the Brevis because it seemed easier to handle and the low light loss. But I decided on the sgpro rev 3. based on footage I've seen w/ the DVX100b and also it seemed sharper than brevis footage. I haven't got it yet as I'm waiting for the sept. batch. After shooting with a homemade static (which isn't that bad) I know i'll be siked using the sgpro as I'm sure it will produce a 'cleaner' image.
 
Phil shot that footage with on older REV1 unit, CF1 imaging element, and our old Nikon lens mounts (had issues). The new REV2-MC units are a world apart from that, particularly with CF1L and our new micro-collimation lens mount system. Phil sets the record with no less than 4 of the new units in his posession. We've worked incredibly hard to catch up with demand and get our order lead times down to 72 hours or so. We've had units in owner's hands as quickly as 19 hours after ordering..across the continent.

There are many examples of some pretty amazing footage to be found at our forum, and this Showtime spot for the Brotherhood series was posted yesterday.

I shot this myself with the little HV20, with the object being max sharpness.

Unfortunately all of the often referred to reviews like Phil's and Richards were done with older Rev1 units...but I'm guessing that will change shortly.
 
Dennis, could you just breif me on what CF1 - 3 and REV1 - 2 etc is?
I know CF is the diffuser, but is that needed to get sharp good images on the DVX100E? What exactly does it do?
 
Like you said, the CF are the diffusion elements. The CF 1 is has the least diffusion (deepest DOF) and therefore looses less light and has close to no visible grain. The CF3 is at the other end with approx. 2.5 times more diffusion than the CF1 and gives incredibly filmlike DOF when used with fast lenses, but it does loose more light and needs fast lenses to eliminate grain. The CF2 rests somewhere between the two..

The L versions of these diffusion elements were designed to eliminate vignetting on larger filter thread cameras (cameras with filter threads at 58mm and above). This means you can use slow zoom lenses stopped down with NO vignetting. Pretty amazing.

The REV (revision) numbers just tell you what version of the adapter are going around. Dennis has been very diligent in keeping the Brevis an ongoing project with non stop improvements, so the REV2 adapters have built upon the original in many ways to make it a better product...

But I'm no engineer. I just use one, so I bet Dennis will correct me if I'm mistaken in any of the things I mentioned here..
 
How does this diffuser work? Is it integrated in the brevis when I buy it or is it something I put into the brevis myself? How does it work?

Ok, looked at the brevis HD bundle pack and the CF1L can be included...
But if I want it to be more filmlike, but still want minimal lightloss, I can choose CF2L? Or does the CF3L feature a significant better result then the CF2L?
Can I order the HDbundle with a CF2L instead of a CF1L?
 
As far as I know the CF2L is currently not available, but will probably be soon since it is being beta tested.

The diffuser you buy with the adapter will be integrated, but if you want to use optional diffusers you have to swap them out yourself, which thankfully is a very simple procedure.
 
Nothing gets closer in resolution and bokeh to the sgpro. If you want a lightlossless product dont use an adapter.
 
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i am very very very happy with my sgpro. but the brevis is excellent as well. though i do personally find the bokeh and sharpness on sgpro to be amazing.
 
People "find" either to be better then the other, but really, which one is the best? Compare all the things they got, like the Brevis CineFuse etc. and try to figure out which one that is the best. They can't be so close it's all about personal taste, it must be some difference... why else would anyone bother getting sgpro, when Brevis is so much easier, lighter and brighter?
 
Glazarus said:
People "find" either to be better then the other, but really, which one is the best? Compare all the things they got, like the Brevis CineFuse etc. and try to figure out which one that is the best. They can't be so close it's all about personal taste, it must be some difference... why else would anyone bother getting sgpro, when Brevis is so much easier, lighter and brighter?
Click to expand...

I really think it does just come down to whichever one the operators "find" to be better. This forum and others have lots of which is the best adapter threads and they almost always boild down to a question of personal preference. You've pointed out that the Brevis is easier to set up, loses less light and weighs less than the sgpro. But it's not like the Sgpro sucks in those areas and is going to be a major hindrance on you--it certainly hasn't stopped others from making great footage. If the Sgpro gives you the image you want wouldn't it be worth the extra weight and light loss?

Depending on where you live this could be really hard but have you thought about testing these units out? If it were me I'd get a brevis because my lenses aren't that fast and I don't care about the depth of field being too shalow (just as long as its not 25ft) in the projects I'm currently doing.

davide
 
Well, I'm from Sweden so I have a hard time testing these ;)
I need to be sure before I buy and I don't have the money to buy both.
But still, if the image quality is almost the same between sgpro and the brevis, the brevis should win due to it's small size, easy setup and minimal lightloss.
I know both of them gives good images, but if the sgpro isn't way ahead of the brevis in image quality, what is so good about it?

I mean, if we set aside our feelings, which one is the best? It should be the brevis due to all these things. But still, the sgpro seems to be at the same level, I don't get that. The sgpro must have a much better image quality to beat the brevis strenghts.
 
and Dennis said it would ship within 72 hours and if you order an sgpro right now it wont come until october 31.
 
Glaz, the imaging elements CF1L, 2 and 3 can be quickly exchanged to achieve effects similar to swapping out film stock in a film camera. During the beta testing process it became apparent that many users have a different preferences for the look, and apparent DOF that they want. The elements represent a concerted and very costly R&D program to create the most light efficient, vignette free, full frame performance from an adapter. This is why we have different choices (the HV20 for example should be ordered with CF1, not CF1L) to maximize performance. CF1 or CF1L are chosen during checkout as the standard imaging element.

It's also true that some users have $3000 high end lenses, some are using rental PL mount Cook cinema lenses, and others just want to slap on a slow/inexpensive zoom and go. CF1L will turn an otherwise unusable zoom into a viable lens for adapter use, and CF3L used with fast lenses is one of the shallowest DOF looks you will find with any adapter out there. This is some work done by Phil Bloom using CF3L on 3 stylized interview shoots for Sky News in London. He was using the Brevis/CF3L/JVC HD201e combo.
 
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Dennis Wood said:
This is some work done by Phil Bloom using CF3L on 3 stylized interview shoots for Sky News in London. He was using the Brevis/CF3L/JVC HD201e combo.
Click to expand...


Wow. That was really great.

Dennis. In your estimation, how much of those shorts were enhanced by the larger chip size of the cameras used? (As opposed to say a A1 or HVX).

I guess my question is, if the same talented person shot those on a smaller chip camera, would you expect the results to be comparable?
 
Most the adapters are plenty sharp... WHEN USED PROPERLY. This includes proper monitoring as well as set-up. The SGpro (rev2 I think) that I tested took more tweaking for best performance than the Brevis. I will soon be posting some TACK SHARP CF3L Brevis footage or grabs as soon as I get permission.



ash =o)
 
Dennis, would you recommend the CF3L if my aim is to create a really cinematic footage? I have a Canon EOS 17-40 4L lens that would work with the CF1L, but I'm planning to get a whole bunch of fast primes that will cover at least 16 - 120mm. In that case it might be better with the CF3L?

But from what I understand I can't order the CF3L together with the Brevis?
I need to order the Brevis first and then make a new order for the CF3L.

Also, do you or someone know a place where I can calculate import taxes and stuff?
 
Oynk said:
Wow. That was really great.

Dennis. In your estimation, how much of those shorts were enhanced by the larger chip size of the cameras used? (As opposed to say a A1 or HVX).

I guess my question is, if the same talented person shot those on a smaller chip camera, would you expect the results to be comparable?
Click to expand...

The JVC has a 1/3inch chip just like the A1 and HVX, right? I thought what made it different wasn't its size but that it was natively progressive. There were some shots that featured a fairly wide dynamic range with different under and overexposed areas. Maybe those were done with the XDCAM since its larger chip has more latitude. But I wouldn't be surprised if Bloom had shot those with the HD200.
 
I ordered the SGPRO for the following reasons (correct me if I have got any of this wrong):
The Sgpro has lens mounts for Zeiss M42, PL and OCT 19 lenses. So it's possible to rent some very expensive and fine glass to put in front of the HVX200 for example.
Image quality when setup properly is better to my eyes than the RedRock adapter but looks equal to the Brevis. So I'm not worried about the Brevis having better image quality.
Sgpro comes with rails and shims and etc as part of the package. With the Brevis you need to order rails seperately which is actually good if you already have some rails. Also as far as I know if you change cameras i.e go from a HV20 to a HVX200 you have to change the imaging element on the Brevis. So you would need two different (CF1 and CF1L) imaging elements if you have two different types of camera - have I got this right?
Sgpro is cheaper for those of us in Europe. The Brevis HD package plus carbon rails plus mounting bracket is about 1,500 Canadian dollars plus shipping plus tax and import duties. So I guess the actual cost would be pretty close to 2,000 canadian dollars - which is 1,400 EUR. If I've got this wrong then let me know. But from what I can see the sgpro is about 800 EURs including tax when delivered in Europe - I'm going to put that extra 600EUR towards a HD monitor.
The benefits of the Brevis system are that it's very light and the order turn-around time is quick. Personally I'm not so worried about the weight issue with the sgpro because I wouldn't shoot handheld with a 35mm adapter. Also when you order an sgpro you get to know Wayne and he answers his mail very quickly if there are problems - as I'm sure Brevis do so it's equal there.
So in the end I bought the Sgpro because it has more lens mounts and is more flexible when swapping between big/small cameras. It's cheaper by some way and has the same image quality as the Brevis. Also I think it holds it's value well because of the waiting time. So if for some reason I wanted to sell it I could quite easily, because people would buy it from me and avoid having to wait.
If you want your 35mm adapter now then go with the Brevis as I'm sure it's a great system. For me I chose the Sgpro for the reasons stated above and for the fact that I can wait 2 months.
 
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