SGpro doubts

[rawfa]

After having watched a ton of videos in the sgpro footage thread (http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?t=123368) I'm very impressed with what this adapter is capable and surprised it is not getting the praise the lex and the brevis are getting. That being said I have a couple of questions:

- Even though I have seen footage where wider and slower lenses were (24mm f2.8) being used and I didn't see any vigneting I'd like to know if there's any known issues being reported (is an achromat needed for this?)?
- Seeing how it is constructed is it difficult to mount it on regular rods? Because I have standard cavision ones and I'd like to know if I'll need a raiser bar.
- Is it heavy to shoot hand held with it? Actually what I mean is I'm thinking about getting the cavision shoulder mount and I'd like if it's too heavy for long time "shoulder shots".
- Is it compatible with all the other ad on flips (brevis and letus)?
- Maybe beer has killed too many of my brain cells and I'm starting to go a bit crazy but I think I've read somewhere that you can stop lenses down until f11 or more. Is this true?
- I'm a long time brevis user so I'd like to know if there's anyone out there who used them both and has some valid advice.

thanks

 

[CarPa]

Pues a la espera de que me llegue un monitor para hacer más pruebas, te contesto a lo que puedo:
Te funcinará con los railes standar. La óptica queda a la altura estandar para acoplar un matte box. Sin la versión flip, no creo que necesites ningún elevador. Yo también me he pedido el soporte de hombro de cavision. En cuanto al peso, creo que es más pesado que el brevis, pero menos que el letus ex. Por si acaso, yo me he pedido una barra que se acopla al sistema de cavisión y descansa en la cintura, para cuando sea neceario estar mucho rato al hombro. Las unidades flip, parece que funcionan ambas. La de letus seguro, ya que es la misma que la de SGpro (la fabrican ellos), la de cinevate parece que también, pero todavía no he visto nadie que la halla probado. En lo demás no te puedo ayudar, ya que como digo, hasta que no me llegue el monitor no puedo hacer pruebas en serio.
Saludos

Carlos

 

[rawfa]

Many thanks, Carlos


For the other's benefit
"While I wait for a monitor to arrive so that I may do some more tests I'll answer like I can: The standard rail system will work. The glass will stay at a standard height so that you may use a matte box. Without the flip version I don't think you will need a raiser bar. I have also ordered a cavision shoulder support. Regarding the weight it should be heavier than the brevis but lighter than the letus ex. Just to be safe I've ordered the waist band support. The flip units should all work. The letus one for sure, since it's the same as the sgpro's (they manufacture it), the cinevate one may work but nobody seem to have tried it yet. Regarding everything else I cannot help you, since like I've told you, I'm still waiting for the monitor to do some serious testing.

regards,

Carlos"

 

[Will Clegg]

FWIW, we were noting at our recent local dvxuser meeting that nobody can remember anybody saying bad things about the SGPro - only positive feedback. There were about 7 of us there, and I think we were in agreement that the SGPro is actually the most attractive option out there right now, even the Letus Extreme is the hottest new item.

I own the M2, but if I were buying a new adapter right now, it would definitely be the SGPro. I think Tim Naylor has used both SG and Brevis extensively... hopefully he will weigh in.

 

[marco0782]

- Even though I have seen footage where wider and slower lenses were (24mm f2.8) being used and I didn't see any vigneting I'd like to know if there's any known issues being reported (is an achromat needed for this?)?

I've used lenses from 14mm to 300mm with the SGpro and never noticed any vignetting.

- Seeing how it is constructed is it difficult to mount it on regular rods? Because I have standard cavision ones and I'd like to know if I'll need a raiser bar.

I think you are asking if the SGpro is unusually tall or something, but it's actually set to the industry standard height (I don't recall the exact measurement) which means matteboxes will be perfectly centered with your lens without requiring any vertical adjustment.

- Is it heavy to shoot hand held with it? Actually what I mean is I'm thinking about getting the cavision shoulder mount and I'd like if it's too heavy for long time "shoulder shots".

The Cavision shoulder mount is awful even if you are filming without an adapter because the camera doesn't sit on your shoulder. You have to use your arms to hold up the camera and that gets tiring really fast. I recommend investing in something where you can center the weight on your shoulder so that your arms aren't doing any lifting at all but rather just keeping the rig steady.

- Is it compatible with all the other ad on flips (brevis and letus)?

The SGpro has its own flip module which is very similar to the Letus flip. Otherwise I think with the use of step up rings it should work perfectly with the Cinevate flip module.

- Maybe beer has killed too many of my brain cells and I'm starting to go a bit crazy but I think I've read somewhere that you can stop lenses down until f11 or more. Is this true?

I've stopped down to f/32 and still saw no grain on the SGpro. It does depend on your shutter speed and the HVX's aperture, too. If you're at a high shutter and small aperture on the HVX you might see grain at f/16.

- I'm a long time brevis user so I'd like to know if there's anyone out there who used them both and has some valid advice.

The Brevis is the sharpest and fastest adapter out there (seriously, I've used them all). The Brevis using CF1 is already less shallow than the other adapters. And then add the fact that you can stop down from f/1.4 to f/4.0 without losing any additional light (I know it doesn't make sense but it's true) and once you've experienced it you develop quite an appreciation for it. You can shoot in low light situations and pulling focus is really easy. On the other hand, pulling focus on the SGpro or LetusEX is really hard unless you rehearse everything down to extreme precision. You could also stop down but by that point you've lost three stops to the Brevis.

With all this said, if you have enough light I really do prefer the look of the SGpro's bokeh and being able to stop down to f/16+ and use high shutter speeds without seeing grain is a big plus for me.

For a run and gun shooter that wants to shoot indoors or in low-light scenarios, the Brevis is invaluable. Currently I am using the SGpro only because I can make the time to rehearse my dolly movements and focus pulls and I can work to get the light levels where I need them.

The best thing would be to own both.


Marco

 

[rawfa]

Thanks. That is really valiable information.

 

[Jon Neely]

The SgPro was a cinch t set up, In my first day example I was getting that kind of footage with it within 15min of receiving the Freight Box if that tells you anything. I have gotten ust to carrying it around it it weighs, well its heavy compared to a bare DVX, but it is lighter than a varicam! lol... The Sgpro from my experience doesn't Vignette, I just creates a hot spot, thats how I explain it, the sides darken with my 20mm 3.8 and my 35mm 2.8 which makes the middle hot if you dont expose for the center which I have learned to do, you can see the example of "Cold" look at the 20mm footage and you can see how the walls of the building kind of are hot in the center, I didnt have proper exposure and using MB, It kind of just enhances any kind of hot spot 100x. My new favorite lens would have to be my 70-300mm F4 Sigma, its slow but i creates an amazing images, with 0 hot spot. I have some more footage of it come monday. I agree totally with herbalmedia, and I will try to make the next DVXuser meet with my SGpro.

Jon

 

[ecking]

The SGpro has its own flip module which is very similar to the Letus flip. Otherwise I think with the use of step up rings it should work perfectly with the Cinevate flip module.

The sgflip is the letus flip. Wayne comisioned the le bros. to make it. Company bonding at its best.

 

[rawfa]

I've stopped down to f/32 and still saw no grain on the SGpro. It does depend on your shutter speed and the HVX's aperture, too. If you're at a high shutter and small aperture on the HVX you might see grain at f/16.Marco

f/32!!! That's freaking incredible!

The more footage I see and the more I hear the sgpro sounds truly awesome.

 

[Kholi]

After having watched a ton of videos in the sgpro footage thread (http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?t=123368) I'm very impressed with what this adapter is capable and surprised it is not getting the praise the lex and the brevis are getting. That being said I have a couple of questions:

Partially because it takes quite some time to get an SGPro and has been like that since release I believe. Wayne releases in batches, and you hardly EVER see a used SGpro up for sale. That's kind-of a testament to the adapter's greatness. Not a lot of open praise, Wayne (like Redrock and Letus) doesn't jump on the boards to pedal his product; he lets the customers do the talking (just like the Letus guys).

- Even though I have seen footage where wider and slower lenses were (24mm f2.8) being used and I didn't see any vigneting I'd like to know if there's any known issues being reported (is an achromat needed for this?)?

I have yet to see any extreme cases of vignetting or edge softness with the SGpro. Tim Naylor's res charts are what I would call extreme. Never seen that before from the SGpro.

- Seeing how it is constructed is it difficult to mount it on regular rods? Because I have standard cavision ones and I'd like to know if I'll need a raiser bar.

Without the flip it's a straight deal. You won't need risers, etc. It's pretty easy to setup. WITH the flip, it ends up bein' the same as every other flipped unit: Gotta raise that sucker.

- Is it heavy to shoot hand held with it? Actually what I mean is I'm thinking about getting the cavision shoulder mount and I'd like if it's too heavy for long time "shoulder shots".

To me, weight is negligible. A heavy camera, when doing handheld, will allow smoother movements. Less shake, etc. It's not heavy enough to deter you from getting your shot by any means.

- Maybe beer has killed too many of my brain cells and I'm starting to go a bit crazy but I think I've read somewhere that you can stop lenses down until f11 or more. Is this true?

Like the M2, the SGpro allows the taking lens to be stopped down pretty far. With enough light you might get away with somethin' like F16 or 22. The other advantage to a spinning ground glass is being able to ramp up shutter speeds to 1/500 and even 1/1000. You can barely get to 1/250th (Plenty of light, wide open lens) on a Vibrating GG adapter.

 

[Kholi]

The Brevis is the sharpest and fastest adapter out there (seriously, I've used them all).

First person to ever say that. SHARPEST out of all of the adapters? Incredible.

The Brevis using CF1 is already less shallow than the other adapters. And then add the fact that you can stop down from f/1.4 to f/4.0 without losing any additional light (I know it doesn't make sense but it's true) and once you've experienced it you develop quite an appreciation for it.

Still don't know what kind of negative effects this has. Waiting for Barry_Green to comment.

On the other hand, pulling focus on the SGpro or LetusEX is really hard unless you rehearse everything down to extreme precision.

Of course you can't rehearse with a documentary (or maybe you can) but pulling focus on all of the units won't differ. Especially between 1.4 and 4.0. At 5.6 and 8 is where it helps, and no matter LetusEx or Brevis you're seeing grain in your image if you're that far closed.

You should be rehearsing anyway for anything other than Documentary no-budget no-time stuff. And even then there's probably time to rehearse.

The machine has little to do with one's ability to pull focus.

 

[Moojangles]

ahhh all this info hurts my brain! SGpro or Brevis?! I can't decide!!!

 

[Barry_Green]

What's important to you, Moojangles? Check through the list of features and decide what's most important. You cannot have it all, but you can have what you want if you pick your priorities.

Lightest weight?
Rightside-up imagery?
Lowest cost?
Sharpest image?
Most light-sensitive?
Lens mount options?

Figure out what you want, not what the manufacturers tell you you want, and then we'll be able to direct you towards which adapter might be most appropriate for you.

 

[Wayne Kinney]

Rafa,

I will try to answer some of your questions:

- Even though I have seen footage where wider and slower lenses were (24mm f2.8) being used and I didn't see any vigneting I'd like to know if there's any known issues being reported (is an achromat needed for this?)?

No adapter is truely free of vignetting/hotspot. It depends on what lenses and camcorder are connected. Wider lenses are notoriously problematic as far as vignetting is concerned, however there is plenty of footage out there showing the use of wide lenses including Matt Garrett's lens test with the HVX200 (can be seen at www.shoot35.com)

Seeing how it is constructed is it difficult to mount it on regular rods? Because I have standard cavision ones and I'd like to know if I'll need a raiser bar.

The SGpro is designed around standard dimensions. The rods clamp is standard 15mm, 60mm centre to centre and lens height is industry standard 85mm to line up with matte boxes for example. Regarding weight, the non flipped version is much lighter than the LEX, and Tim Naylor reported that the flipped version is slightly lighter than the LEX, but I am not 100% sure.

- Is it compatible with all the other ad on flips (brevis and letus)?

The Letus flip and ours is the same as someone pointed out. I do not know about the cinevate flip.

- Maybe beer has killed too many of my brain cells and I'm starting to go a bit crazy but I think I've read somewhere that you can stop lenses down until f11 or more. Is this true?

We get so many emails/feedback each month from users that are surprised that they can shoot at F16 (outside ofcourse) and at high shutter speeds (i've shot at 1/1000th shutter with great results. But the SGpro is certainly not grainless, given the right (or should I say wrong?) conditions (shooting at a bright sky at F5.6, for example) grain could creep in.

 

[rawfa]

Many thanks, Wayne. I do believe you might be seeing some of my footage on your forum soon ;-)

 

[StMad]

rawfa, I've also been a long time Brevis owner. I partially agree with John Neely's comments about quick setup. It would have been quicker for me if instructions were included. The SGpro mount was 6-7mm too low out of the box, so I tested the Brevis mount. It fit perfectly! It's lighter than the SGmount so it has a new home.

As far as performance is concerned, I'm more than happy. On the Brevis my 50mm 1.8 has vignetting issues on the right side at f4 which make it unusable at f5.6. I'm guessing that my HVX is not properly aligned. On the SGpro, it's perfect (as far as I can see) through the entire aperture. Same with my 24mm and 85mm.

And my SGpro was tack sharp from the get go. If the Brevis is as sharp as the SGpro when properly set up, that tells me I haven't got my Brevis collimated. Of course that's something I should know how to do, but it's a lot of fiddling if you don't know exactly what you're doing.

The bokeh is another story again...yummmm.

I also agree with the poster that said there's benefit in having both. For indoor use without big lighting, I'll always turn to the Brevis.

 

[StMad]

Jon Neely, you've got me curious about that Sigma 70-300 (4-5.6?). It's as cheap as chips. Do you use any extra support for it? And can you comment on pros and cons?

 

[hoarp001]

Just for the record, I use a Canon 28mm F2.8 with no vignetting on the SG rev3 with flipper. The rig is fairly heavy with the flip unit, which weighs about 1.5kg alone. The whole thing weighs 5.5kg with lens and my sony FX1. I intend to use this on a shoudler mount and steadicam and im pretty sure it wont cause a problem....

 

[marco0782]

First person to ever say that. SHARPEST out of all of the adapters? Incredible.

I really should do a head to head because the difference is striking. There used to be bad word of mouth surrounding the Brevis' sharpness but that was before Cinevate revamped their lens mounts and introduced the micro-collimation ring. Prior to that it was impossible to get the mounts precisely positioned.

But the Cinevate achromat is outstanding and the same way that CF1 gives the illusion of more depth of field it also makes for a sharper image.


Marco

 

[Kholi]

I really should do a head to head because the difference is striking. There used to be bad word of mouth surrounding the Brevis' sharpness but that was before Cinevate revamped their lens mounts and introduced the micro-collimation ring. Prior to that it was impossible to get the mounts precisely positioned.

But the Cinevate achromat is outstanding and the same way that CF1 gives the illusion of more depth of field it also makes for a sharper image.


Marco

Please do a shoot out.