Seven: a 1990s film noir look

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Here's a shot from the movie Seven.

The DP, Darius Khondji ASC, AFC states for these alley shots he used shallow depth of field, ND filters on, an overall blue tint with warm colors added in (in this case the tail light) to give a sense of some warmth, using HMIs above with diffusion to soften the ever present top lighting he used which ultimately leaves the actors in darkness.

sevenalleygarbagetruck6cj.jpg


Anyone get results like this? How?
 
Re: Seven

Re: Seven

yeah, you're right!....good eye! :)

Have you had any luck getting this sort of look?
 
Re: Seven

Re: Seven


i just posted a week or so ago about how to look at a movie and get a similar look, this was one of the movies.

matthew
 
Re: Seven

Re: Seven

matthewd5, i know you talked about it, that's why this is here!... Fincher & Darius is using lights way in the back of the actors    (usual practice), scuplting it with flags & using diffussion to bring it down.

The characters live in a world of dark shadows and muted tones, just like the social world they inhabit. It represents their personal world and maybe something deep in each of them, why else would they chose to live there?

The gritty dark tones, the rain water blurs the car windows, it's hard to see anything in this world, life is dreary and hard to see ahead, a glint of warm tail light ( of all things! ) a cup of warm coffee, it's a luxury in this hell hole. The little warmth there reminds us of the other side of life, because it sure ain't here! ....great visual design!

The lighting does most of this tonal work. If this visual design weren't here could you imagine how the story would just fall flat? and this is a really good story.
 
Re: Seven: a 1990s film noir look

yes. i have a problem putting into words why i like a "look"

i have to start figuring out the emotional feeling i want and then design a look around it.

its hard to get any guidance in how to do this.

like the film noir i'm working on now, its basically a middle ageish college professor who married a former student/trophy wife 5 or 6 years ago, now she's running around with a student and they are plotting to knock off the prof. for the insurance, but the professors secretary overhears this, what the viewer does find out till later is that the professor and his secretary have been having an affair for a while.

you see a struggle pretty much in outline at the professors house and hear a gunshot.

you see a very dark outline of someone digging a hole and pushing in what is pretty obviously a body.

then a minor character who was introduced earlier (a cop who was asking the professor permission to hunt on his property as he does every year, finds the body because of his dog.

then you see the cop opening up the wrappings of the body, next shot is an extreme close up of the professors face with his eyes close, then his eyes open and the camera does a crane up and reveals he is happily in bed with his secretary.

next scene shows the dead trophy wifes boyfriend being arrested for her death.

then it ends with the professors secretary/soon to be wife dropping off one of the other characters and they make reference to knocking off the professor in the future after they have been married.

it is a little bit deeper than that, but that is the general gist of it.

i like the writers idea of it being done in film noir, he really wants it in color.

i'm trying to figure out how to pick different parts of it to be conveyed as being conveyed differently in visual ways.

matthew
 
Re: Seven: a 1990s film noir look

You might consider how the story changes color as it moves forward.

Here are a few crazy, off the top of my head thoughts, so take it for what it is:

A college is some sort of a colorful place, people learning etc... but Hitchcock liked to use happy places for his trickery, see South by Southwest, the crop duster plane, danger in the middle of a farm field?...yep, Hitch knew how to do it. I would think you're after a sinister world of facade deception & dark inner secrets.

The outer exterior/ social world should be charming, bright, colorful, contrasted by the darker grittier hidden world. should the love really be love, how about exploitation: raw violent sex which is symbolic of a compulsive behavior, "can't get no satisfaction" but keeps coming back thinking he will this time. :o...the story needs to shock, not your pictures. Let the audience imagine, they'll do a much better job than you ever could imagine.

Noir is a social statement that shows us our offensive base nature....it should be raw & truthful. Down deep we should see it and hate it, but we cannot deny it, because we know it speaks to some level of truth. This is the statement audiences want & need because it helps us try to understand our experience. Why did the little girl stare so long at the dead puppy? because she's fascinated with the ugliness of life & death?

Get a good local grunge band for some of their dissonant songs and anger....that'll set the tone! Have the lovers bite & hit each other (fast cuts) with the music going on, that will shock us! ... well some it might not :)....A Dr. Jeckel & Mr. Hyde sort of lovers. From Mozart to Meat Puppets?

I'm just having too much fun here creating this horror! ;)

Contrast is the key, from color to little color, dark to light, smile to rage, collected to uncontrolled. The professor might need to have difficulty seeing yet refuses to wear his glasses. Symbolizing: he brings others to the lamp of knowledge yet he himself cannot see nor does he want to, that sort of thing...this could be fun!

Happiness could be mainly out doors or high ceilings giving air & light, while inner relationships need to be cellar/basement/claustraphobic choking exploitations.... they don't love they take.

Play it like music, tension, release, tension, release, all the way to the climax.

3 out of 10 audience members should be shocked, i mean disturbed. 5 will like it, 2 of them a whole lot, 1 will feel they never should have seen it but stayed & one will leave before it's finished!

;)
 
Re: Seven: a 1990s film noir look

You guys aren't expanding upon the most important lighting element in this scene...

water. It's the water that makes this scene effective. Never forget that rain, fog and fire hoses are very effective tools to enhance lighting.
 
Re: Seven: a 1990s film noir look

Yes the water is important in this scene, while my rambling is about the overall film look, where most action occurs indoors.

Water is a nice effect because of the reflection it gives off, that's why lots of night scenes have rainy streets...it looks good under street lights; it adds sparkle to the night.

The water in other parts of the movie for me are more significant. When they are in cars the rain is so heavy it's difficult to see out the windows. This could have helped mask things not wanted in the BG, or it could have been a stylistic choice. On one 2-shot between driver & passenger side there's a noticable difference in water quantity. I guess one side of the city gets a little more rainfall. ;)

The constant rain is interesting because it forces the characters into buildings....it's kind of like the nature of the city forces one into refuge, nice symbolism, if they thought of that.
 
Re: Seven: a 1990s film noir look

When i think about noir or horror or other haunting sort of genres, what is it about us that causes us to be interested in this?

Why are we fascinated with the darkness, the crazy, or pure evil? any ideas???? ???
 
Re: Seven: a 1990s film noir look

Hey great thread! I like the nuts a bolts discussion combined with the all too often overlooked conceptual justifications. Khondji's work is awesome, and I ve watched Seven without sound just to pay attention to lighting. By the way, what is an HMI? is it one of those ballon like things?
 
Re: Seven: a 1990s film noir look

no, the HMI is a kind of light that gives you 5600 K, made with mercury instead of tungsten.

More comon are the Fresnel HMI, and are pretty good.
 
Re: Seven: a 1990s film noir look

macgregor, please explein yourself, how did you get that look?
 
Re: Seven: a 1990s film noir look

i would love more discussions about this. tech and specs gets old.

ASC just put out a book called New Cinematographers that may have some info for you.
 
Re: Seven: a 1990s film noir look

I have this book, although available from the ASC not 'Put out' by them. It is a great read with plenty of techie stuff and diagrams. I reccomend it. ONe of the better books I have seen on Lighting and DP Work.

1856693341.01._SCLZZZZZZZ_.jpg
 
Re: Seven: a 1990s film noir look

Seven is a masterpiece in every aspect. Cinematography, art direction, production design, direction, even the script (i remember how impressive was the end back in 1995).

Darius Khondji made probably his best job in this movie. He did an incredibly good work with Jean Pierre Jeunet and Marc Caro in the french movies that he made before. But seven is the best one. I love the deleted scene of the begining where the detective is buying a house.

I wish i could just bring coffes to Mr. Khondji in the sets, just to have a glimpse of how he distributes the lights.

And for the shot of the foot, there is nothing more than an HMI fresel outside the window of that room (which actually acted as a diffusion gel). The white balance was done giving some green color, and then in post, i touched the color curve to give the image darker blacks (as the bleach bypass actually does) and desature a lot the color.

Here are some raw footage of a shor i did 2 years ago. Very seven stylished. All lightened by fluorescent lights.

http://www.macgregorcorp.com/xy.mov

Well, of course it looks like video, but it is no bad at all considering the price of the camera. Just i wish it had less DOF.
Bye!
 
Re: Seven: a 1990s film noir look

Damn macgregor. Care to share more? That short looks really good. More more more!!!
 
Re: Seven: a 1990s film noir look

wanna see more of that short? oops.i dont understand. sorry for my english... ;D
 
Re: Seven: a 1990s film noir look

that last clip was pretty nice. i think he ment more of anything you might have.
 
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