Setting MM-1 or MixPre levels using DVX

[Deus_Ex_Lemur]

Primarily for the MM-1, I'm trying to set it up as a preamp and run it through the DVX. But what options should I then set in the DVX (I know to run Line In) but although the MM-1 does not have level reading/visual monitoring, and uses stepped level control (annoying) to output level changes, I am finding it confusing on how to get an accurate monitoring of the sound levels through the MM-1, as you still need to set the levels on the DVX too and I find after dialing the level on the DVX after a certain point there's no sound at all...

I mean the headphone monitoring on the MM-1 is fantastic but how accurate is it? I wasn't originally going to get the MM-1 being limiting (actually I'm borrowing it but the person knows nothing about sound, funny huh) but this was for a short few rounds of sit down interviews using a AT899 LAV. I just dont want to get what I think is a good level during shooting and realize it's terrible afterwards. Maybe I should play it safe and just run it through the DVX, not the worst camera preamp at all... =/ Anyways sorry if I am sounding confusing lol.

 

[Steve House]

Primarily for the MM-1, I'm trying to set it up as a preamp and run it through the DVX. But what options should I then set in the DVX (I know to run Line In) but although the MM-1 does not have level reading/visual monitoring, and uses stepped level control (annoying) to output level changes, I am finding it confusing on how to get an accurate monitoring of the sound levels through the MM-1, as you still need to set the levels on the DVX too and I find after dialing the level on the DVX after a certain point there's no sound at all...

I mean the headphone monitoring on the MM-1 is fantastic but how accurate is it? I wasn't originally going to get the MM-1 being limiting (actually I'm borrowing it but the person knows nothing about sound, funny huh) but this was for a short few rounds of sit down interviews using a AT899 LAV. I just dont want to get what I think is a good level during shooting and realize it's terrible afterwards. Maybe I should play it safe and just run it through the DVX, not the worst camera preamp at all... =/ Anyways sorry if I am sounding confusing lol.

It is impossible to monitor for proper levels through headphones, period, end of story. So it sounds too loud - how do you know where the volume you're hearing is coming from ... headphone gain too loud, mic gain too loud, camera input too loud, camera headphone output too loud, monitor gain too loud, a combination of all of them?

The preamp gain control adjusts the gain of the preamp itself, thus the level of the signal sent to the camera. The monitor gain is used to adjust the level of the return signal from the camera back to the MM1. The headphone gain is used to adjust the listening levels for comfort.

In this case, using the MM1 to send audio directly to the camera, the camera's meters are the ONLY reliable indication of recording levels you have available. Set the camera's input faders to somewhere between their midpoint and 2/3 full-scale and leave them there (that should approximate unity gain). While the subject is talking, adjust the preamp gain until it gives you proper levels in the camera meters. Adjust the headphone gain to give you a comfortable listening level. Do not try to "ride gain" during recording with the MM1 preamp gain control - for the most part it's a set it once and leave it control to adjust the preamp for different output levels when swapping mics, that's why it's stepped.

I'm assuming here you're taking the camera headphones output and returning it back to the MM1. If so, set the camera headphones level to about 2/3, then adjust the monitor gain so that when you swtich between monitoring the mic and monitoring the return the levels in the headphones are the same. You may have to fiddle with the camera headphone output control a little to get it right.

 

[Deus_Ex_Lemur]

Thank you Steve for the insightful response. Makes sense.
I know the goal is to get the least amount of noise with getting a strong signal at the source; (ie: get mic as close as can) Guess I was trying to reduce the camera gain dial too much. Not thinking of unity gain and everything you said.

- What about the limiter on the MM-1 or any, should that even be turned on for this sort of set up? (interior sit down lav'd interviews?)

- Also the High-Pass filter (low-cut) for MM-1 or any preamp/mixer... ever a good idea to use? It says the 160 Hz position is useful to enhance speech clarity but from the little I know it will just make it sound not as natural.

- Another question, the DVX has an option for -50 Db or -60 Db I know -60 is a boost for less sensitive mics but will produce more noise right? I guess using the MM-1 and the AT899 LAV it's best to use -50?

These are basic questions I usually do DP/camera not sound very basic knowledge but my friend is away and can't contact him for this, and only got the MM-1 not knowing better =) But it actually is a good thing to finally learn more. I've also been trying to watch the Sound for Film and Television DVD from here but it didn't have much with using preamps/mixers and leveling/monitoring the audio.

 

[Steve House]

Thank you Steve for the insightful response. Makes sense.
I know the goal is to get the least amount of noise with getting a strong signal at the source; (ie: get mic as close as can) Guess I was trying to reduce the camera gain dial too much. Not thinking of unity gain and everything you said.

- What about the limiter on the MM-1 or any, should that even be turned on for this sort of set up? (interior sit down lav'd interviews?)

- Also the High-Pass filter (low-cut) for MM-1 or any preamp/mixer... ever a good idea to use? It says the 160 Hz position is useful to enhance speech clarity but from the little I know it will just make it sound not as natural.

- Another question, the DVX has an option for -50 Db or -60 Db I know -60 is a boost for less sensitive mics but will produce more noise right? I guess using the MM-1 and the AT899 LAV it's best to use -50?

These are basic questions I usually do DP/camera not sound very basic knowledge but my friend is away and can't contact him for this, and only got the MM-1 not knowing better =) But it actually is a good thing to finally learn more. I've also been trying to watch the Sound for Film and Television DVD from here but it didn't have much with using preamps/mixers and leveling/monitoring the audio.

The limiter can't hurt - you never know if your interviewee will get PO'ed and start shouting <grin>

The high-pass filter is good for reducing wind and handling noises. Try with it on first, to cut any subsonics, and listen. If it changes the voice timbre of a male speaker turn it off. Normally you'd want it on.

I'm not up on DVX camera audio but the -60 and -50 settings you mention would certainly be for when a mic is connected directly to the camera audio inputs. They're adjusting the sensitivity for a MIC LEVEL input signal. But with the MM1 you're feeding the camera a LINE LEVEL signal and the mic sensitivity is irrelevant.

Just FYI, to do it right, like the networks and Hollywood do it, you need to add another piece to the puzzle and that's a for-real mixer. The MM1 is really most often used for the situation where you have a sound mixer (person) with an audio mixer (hardware) controlling the audio going to the camera. He's monitoring signal quality on his cans and levels through the meters on the mixer. Feeding the mixer is a boom mic operated by another person, the boom operator. He too needs to hear how his signal sounds because as you move the mic's aim point, the voice level and quality change - a shotgun pointed directly at the subject's mouth sounds different from the same mic pointed at the subject's chest, for example. To maintain a consistent sound quality throughout the take, the boom operator has to hear what he's doing and that's where headphone amps like the MM1 come in, providing him that capability. If you only have one sound person doing double duty as mixer and boom operator, the preferred way would not be to use the MM1 (though you can make do with it in a pinch) but instead have the soundie carry a real audio mixer, something like the SD MixPre, 302, or 442, so he can both operate the boom mic and monitor and control the audio parameters.

 

[Deus_Ex_Lemur]

Thanks again. Yeah, I didn't think it through... because I was only using one channel I figured the MM-1 would work and I was able to get my hands on it for cheap. I'm just getting into sound I've been just using through the camera, which has been fine of course want to lose that habit of using camera's preamp. The price I got the MM-1 I guess blinded me to further research external pre's and field mixers only needing one channel . For this project there is only one sound person I figured also since most of this will be LAV'd it would be easier to monitor the sound - still I misunderstood the real purpose of the MM-1 -- guess I should have come on here first =D

Anyways thanks again I'll see what happens luckily for this project it's mostly sit down interviews with LAV, makes it easier, but if worse comes to worse I'll just use the DVX's sound, and look into getting a MixPre or 302, def prefer 302 totally future proof it but my checkbook (and credit =) isn't exactly the most stellar atm.