setting levels on dvx for use with sd 302

M

matthewd5

Veteran
can someone give me some tips on how they setup their dvx-100 to work with an sd 302?

i used the tone and set the dvx so it stopped just short of going out of the white.

this just so happened to be where both volume wheels stopped at the exact half way detent.

am i ok or did i miss something?

matthew
 
to be on the safe side , calibrate your tone to + 4 db( internal menu) , go to the attunuation menu and calibrate the output for -8 db
you can calibrate the limiters to +18 db on your mixer


now , when you give tone ( +4 on your mixer meter- line level input on the camera) , calibrate the dvx to the 3rd white line ( the 3rd from the first red , skip on the divider white line)- that's -20-18 dbfs mark .
now work that the peaks on your mixer will go to +8,+10 , it will give you at least 10 db for unexpected peaks ,and if your limiter is on, they will never even go there .
that configuration ,you will never distort your dvx input stage .
dont be afraid the dvx potentiometers would sit a little bit higher
 
be careful while you mix and put the 302 meter on peak +vu to see your peaks and watch the average loudness
 
ok. i think i get this.

do i have to go into the config for the 302 and change the limiter or just use the limiter as it is already set?

does someone have the time to do a screen shot of this?

matthew
 
ok i did everything you said but the levels going into the dvx seem awfully low.

i'm only getting like 2 or 3 white bars when the mixer is showing close to the red.

not sure what i missed?

originally i was just setting the tone and adjusting the levels on the dvx so the tone topped out just at the last white line before it went red.

this worked out to be the mid-point detent on the dvx.

it seems i was closer then than i am now??

anyone else have the sd 302 with their dvx-100?

matthew
 
what does it mean close to the red ?
you have to ride the levels on the mixer it would hit the +12 led from time to time .( that's the 3rd from the top)
the setup i suggested based on on 8 db attenuation on the output and reference for +4 dbm tone , so actually its like you where giving 0 reference tone with 4 db attenuation , the benefit to get more attenuation on the mixer out is to prevent dvx input distortion even they say it can handle 4dbm signal , yes when you work with modest levels - quit not ok when you rise the level to the maximum on unpleasant peaks which hit the +20 db .
rising the calibration level on the camera is behind analog to digital conversion ,so you are leveling good signal and it would stay like that even you will go for full scale on your mixer.

check again that you attenuate 8 db only( this is the first setup inside the mixer)
the reference tone is +4 db .
and the camera set to -20do.-18dbfs ( the 3rd white, each dot is 2 dbfs , the first red is -12 dbfs)

i never liked the 302 metering leds , the 4db gap make people mix very low since they afraid to hit the the last mark .
you also can calibrate the meter will show you the output from your camera during you are listen to return .
after you calibrate the camera , hook the rca outs and send them to mixer return sockets ( then match the levels it will show you + 4db while you have -20 dbfs on the camera) , check with m/s that the output level is equal on both outs ,you will have zero level in your right ear ., with that setup you will actually hear the same level when you in mixer position or return one .the levels on the mixer in return position will show you the actual level which goes to the recording .
the only difference you will hear is the camera noise which add to the signal /
dont use headphones out since it could be changed accidentally , or might distort even it is not on tape and certainly have more noise then the rca outs ( the dvx has the worst headphone amp between the small camcorders)

and forget about the red, this is only the color :-) -everything ok if you dont hear the distortion in the headphones
 
i triple checked and i'm using all of your suggested settings in the mixer and the levels on the dvx.

one stupid question, during a scene how much do you adjust the levels on an input?

i mean do you chase the levels or do you try to leave the settings alone for each scene?

i've always tried to keep the levels pretty much consistent for the scene.

matthew
 
depends on the actors and rehearsals , if something change you try to adjust , if it not -you dont .
for drama i dont keep the rule of -10 dbfs maximum peak, so mixing quit hot and going down allitle if if the preamp hazard is is starting to blink , that's what good with sd , you have continues trim , so you actually can go down before the fader ( keep it up if you feel the scene is very dynamic).
if it direct to broadcast, i keep the the -10 as the maximum .
remember that for drama ,if you have good boom operator , he would rise or swing the boom if he feel the loudness is increasing dramatically , that's better and doesn't change the atmosphere (room tone) level, so if you 2 are synchronize ,he will rise a little and you will go down in level .
actually when you change the shooting and go from 2-3 feet height to extreme close up , dont bring the boom to the actors hair , keep at least 1 feet over ,so the jump in back round sound wouldn't be to notchable ( of course if you have to much back ground forgot about that rule)
so the conclusion is, you do chase a little but your boom operator have to swing and rise the boom to keep you happy .
that's why good boom operator is better then everything else .
 
I would suggest that when using a 302 to dvx you should set things back to default and set your tone at 0 like you were before. The meter on the dvx should be right below the point where it goes red. Use your mixers peak meter funtion either alone or with vu. Consider the peak as the highest you should go and 0 on the meter should correspond with 0 on the DVX driving it past that and you risk distortion. You really should not rely on the limiter unless you are going to experience an uncontrolled loud event. Those other setting are a mismatch and will work but are not an optimum setting for gain structure.
Just my two cents, I have been using a 442 since they came out.
Aron
 
OK ,with your setting every pick above 16 db will distort.
,maybe you bought the mixer when it came out ( my 442 is from 2002 April by the way, before most of the US guys even sow it in their hands ) , but you definitely have no clew about dvx input structure .
the 4db tone is only reference calibration for what usually we do with cameras which calibrated for 4 dbm ,
the attenuation is because the small s.h.i.t cant handle more the 16 db over zero without distort and the red is my favor place to mix stuff :-)
, the limiters are coming to prevent go over certain level , so if you place them high enouth ( like me ,around +16-18 db ) you will never need them as long you dont swim in that high aria .
.

with my calibration you cant distort your analog camera stage , when with yours you can easily recording good distortion without touching the brick wall .
sorry pal , your setup is not what i call be on the safe side :-)

by the way with 442 you can calibrate with 0db tone for -16 with the output stage on-10db , the 302 just have much better attenuation setting what actually needed for the not good enouth dv /whatever cameras/ recorders .

your 2 cents are not good as my 2 drachmas :-)
happy whatever every one
 
-OK ,with your setting every pick above 14 db will distort.

Sure it will, that is why I run my peaks up to 0db. If it is up to 14db I have let it get to far.
You have your way safe way and I have my "risky way" , but it works for me. :-)
 
you see , with my setting nothing distort until the mixer actually will chunk :-)
what actually you do, is recording very poor signal to noise ratio on dvx ,which not actually state of the art recording device .
what might be good for hard news and street noise becoming pain when you mixing a feature ( i dont wish anyone to use this one as main recoding for theatralic release, but only if you have to and dont have finance for good separate recorder).
the small mumbling of the actors go down to toilet with the self camera noise , and if you have not balance scene in which the actor improvise and becoming the human expander , you actually will not recover his underground regrets and might definitely f,, his loud prays .
and usially the films which cant handle good recording budget, have very big trouble to find actors which really know how to use their voice for film business:-)
better be prepared for every trouble
 
i'm just trying to find the safest settings.

most often i don't have a boom operator and if i'm doing the boom i can't be chasing levels with the mixer controls.

i've done a lot of stuff where the actors are stationary and i use a boom holder on a c stand to hold the boom/mic

so if i can find a nice middle ground setting for the mixer/dvx levels and just watch the mixer and dvx levels.

my main thing is trying to get the sd 302 and the dvx's level meters to match each other.

if i can trust both the mixer levels and the dvx levels to be pretty close to the same i'll be happy.

i've been looking at two different higher quality recording devices but for a lot of the stuff i do i think it would confuse/complicate the crew a lot.

i'm trying to find an excuse to get the sound device 722

is there a good way to use a recorder like the 722 but still have the signal from the mixer also end up going into the dvx's xlr inputs?

i wasn't sure how well the 722 would work with the dvx without a common timecode to work with?

matthew
 
you can send unbalance outs( bus out) to the camera or recorder , as long as you use short cables.
if i was in your place , i was more considering the tascam with
some smart slate then the 722 .
 
which tascam?

i had looked at one of them and it looked nice. i thought it might be better to go from sound device product to another sound device product.

matthew
 
the only problem i can find with that one is it can't do line level in off of the xlr jacks.

if you want line level it will only accept that from the rca inputs.

i'm pretty clueless about the timecode as far as audio is concerned...

what is the best way to get the audio timecode?

doesn't the SD 744 have a timecode card option?

matthew
 
the 744 come with tc generator build in , the tascam need ext generator to stamp tc , so if you buy slate which is also generator , you can use that one for tc synchronization , or you can buy tc generator only , that would aloud you synchronize the both tc in free run mode only .
about tascam line in , it takes unbalance -10 dbv out , exactly what goes out from you 302 bus out ( just different connector the same signal) , so you still can supply the audio to the camera for on board recording .
the unbalance is good for short runs only , but since these 2 sitting in the same( the bag or on the cart) place it is no problem at all .
the tascam need cf cards for recording , if you buy 2 4 gb cards that would aloud you recording 12 stereo track hours in 16/48 or 8 for 24/48 , of course you can record sing track only and double the time .
even the 722 have internal hard disk i dont see allot of benefit pay 1200 more .
 
ok so i now have the 442 and 744t and i'm trying to balance the levels going to the 744t and the levels going to the camera over the 10 pin hirose breakaway cable.

from the 442 i am feeding the 4 channels directly to the 744t and then feeding the left and right channels to the camera over the breakaway.

can you give me suggestions on how to get the levels right on both the 744t and the camera?

i have tried setting the levels on the 744t to be -4db and that seemed to help as with the levels correct for the camera and with them looking good on the 442 they were looking too high on the 744t.

i know its probably odd using the 4 channels direct out but i really want to have the original signals saved on the 744t without any mix.

matthew
 
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