Randall_Oelerich
Veteran
When you all write your screenplays (features), do you try to build in six or so big set pieces? I am trying to do so. Read about this recently somewhere.
Set Pieces ?
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Artman009
Active member
Maybe it's just me but I find this type of screenwriting a bit silly. You don't build a house by first thinking how many windows you want--you draw the layout, then figure out where the windows go. I think the same goes for screenwriting.
First and foremost, you need a story. What's the story about? Then come the characters: who are they and what's their journey? The answers to those basic questions, I think, solve a lot.
Then, you write out the story--either be in the form of an outline, treatment, or even the script itself. As screenwriter William Goldman says, write it as quickly as possible. The first pass or draft should be all emotion. Get it out and on paper. Once you're done, and after your emotions have cooled, then you go back and review with your editor's cap on. That's when you realize the silly stuff you've written.
You'll say to yourself, "Oh man, every scene begins with somebody saying, 'Hey' or 'What's up?'." Or "God, I've got two courtroom scenes back to back. That's a bit much." Things like that. And, along the way, you'll start to see the dramatic imperfections too.
You're main character is constantly backing down when faced with an obstacle or adversary. He may need to be more proactive.
The best friend character doesn't really do anything to serve the plot. He just makes jokes. What good is he?
If you think more in terms of who the character is, what they want and how you're going to prevent them from getting it for the next 90 minutes, and I strongly believe the rest will work itself out.
Anyway, that's my opinion. Thoughts?
-- Artman009
Mattykins
Cute Member
When I write (and read, since I do more reading than writing usually) I'm not looking for set pieces. I've never heard that before, ever.
Now, one project I have going now, the current production revision is based on not having a specific prop, that being a army hummer. If we get that, there will be a new revision where we use that piece more. Because, if we have it, we are paying for it, why not use it if it helps.
Things like that, sure. But when you are writing the idea down for the first time, focus on story and character. I don't care if there are six major set pieces or only two. I won't kill an idea if I can't have six pieces in the film. You should focus on the story and characters, who really cares about props if they don't serve the story.
Now, one project I have going now, the current production revision is based on not having a specific prop, that being a army hummer. If we get that, there will be a new revision where we use that piece more. Because, if we have it, we are paying for it, why not use it if it helps.
Things like that, sure. But when you are writing the idea down for the first time, focus on story and character. I don't care if there are six major set pieces or only two. I won't kill an idea if I can't have six pieces in the film. You should focus on the story and characters, who really cares about props if they don't serve the story.
pmark23
Veteran
I don't think some of you understand the question. He's talking about structural sequences within acts.
After I have a good idea what the story is about (it may still be in my head), I break it down into 4 sections (the acts), then then each of those four into three or four (depending on size of screenplay) sequences, and then break down each of those sequences into three or four (again depending on size of screenplay) scenes.
I do this in a table in Word, and now fill in all of the squares with story details, and then write it out into an outline.
This way I cover all of the story points, can easily see missing story, and most importantly don't have a few very long scenes with nothing but filler in between.
After I have a good idea what the story is about (it may still be in my head), I break it down into 4 sections (the acts), then then each of those four into three or four (depending on size of screenplay) sequences, and then break down each of those sequences into three or four (again depending on size of screenplay) scenes.
I do this in a table in Word, and now fill in all of the squares with story details, and then write it out into an outline.
This way I cover all of the story points, can easily see missing story, and most importantly don't have a few very long scenes with nothing but filler in between.
Mattykins
Cute Member
Which would most appropriately be "beats" no?
Apparently wikipedia says setpiece is "a scene or sequence of scenes the execution of which requires serious logistical planning and considerable expenditure of money"
Which would be the first time I've heard it used that way. But I've been wrong before. This wouldn't be the first time.
PS. I also come from an education in theater. So, that's what threw me.
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Randall_Oelerich
Veteran
Actually I am thinking of 'set piece' as a highly memorable scene in a story. Depending on the genre, a set piece might be drilling the hole for the nuclear bomb on the asteroid with only minutes remaining (Armageddon), or the scene where Will Penny walks into the saloon at the end of the movie with shotgun in hand, or the scene up in the saloon room where the whore gets her face cut, etc. (Unforgiven), or the creepy contortion artist kid walking down the stairs in The Grudge. Or a memorable love scene in a romantic drama.
Set pieces:
http://www.google.com/search?source=ig&hl=en&rlz=&=&q=screenwriting+set+pieces&btnG=Google+Search
Set pieces:
http://www.google.com/search?source=ig&hl=en&rlz=&=&q=screenwriting+set+pieces&btnG=Google+Search
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kylekmd
Well-known member
Sounds like there's a misunderstanding here.
Here's the deal. Set pieces should come from character or story and, when used to best advantage, are heavy in SYMBOLISM and METAPHOR. Like everything in your screenplay should be, IMO.
Set pieces are not physical "sets." No one said that you should randomly choose places like a lakeside cabin or a subway or an elevator shaft to include in your screenplay just because they would be cool. Everything you put in your story SHOULD REFLECT CHARACTER OR STORY and have meaning. If it's not pertinent to either of those, then it doesn't belong in your script.
The concept of set piece is a well known in the industry. It's not the PHYSICAL SET, though it may occur at a single place or set. As Randy points out, it's a term that refers to a highly memorable scence or sequence in a movie. And although there's more to it, that's the gist of it.
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Randall_Oelerich
Veteran
In Armageddon, would a set piece in that story be the scene where Bruce Willis is about to blow himself up with the asteroid, and he shares his last words with his daughter Grace, so far away? Not big action, but definitely a tear jerker, memorable.
Randall_Oelerich
Veteran
I like this webpage about set pieces:
"When writing screenplays, beginning screenwriters often forget to add the element of the visually unforgettable to their stories. This element is called a Set Piece. To understand what a set piece is..."
~randall
"When writing screenplays, beginning screenwriters often forget to add the element of the visually unforgettable to their stories. This element is called a Set Piece. To understand what a set piece is..."
~randall
Artman009
Active member
Very possible...
Very possible...
Very possible. For me, when I think of set pieces, I think of things like the different torture setups used in the 'Saw' movie series or the type of action sequences in 'Die Hard' or 'Transformers', which, in my opinion, is the type of writing that usually leads people to copy scenes & sequences from other movies but just making it bigger and louder.
I think I follow you but could you provide an example?
True, but I know a lot of people think this way when they want to write a movie idea. Ever been to a beginners screenwriting class? It's fascinating to hear students pitch their ideas to the rest of the class because about 90% of them had never really written anything down before that wasn't a term paper or a letter, and almost all had certainly never verbally explained their ideas to anyone. So, of course, a lot of their pitches are messes.
Their ideas have only existed in their heads up to that point, and even then it's usually only a handful of moments from the "story". They can only visualize and verbalize chunks of ideas--a lot derived from other movies--that have no narrative tissue to connect them together. But almost all of them feel compelled to include what I call "trailer moments":
"...and then he fights the bad guy on the edge of the building..."
"...the killer is dressed like Michael Myers but he carries a battke axe and he uses it to chop the kid's face off...", etc.
My thoughts exactly. That's why I think a strong emphasis on set pieces early in the writing process is a bad idea. It should be about the story and the characters first and foremost. Everything else comes after that.
-- Artman009
Very possible...
Very possible. For me, when I think of set pieces, I think of things like the different torture setups used in the 'Saw' movie series or the type of action sequences in 'Die Hard' or 'Transformers', which, in my opinion, is the type of writing that usually leads people to copy scenes & sequences from other movies but just making it bigger and louder.
I think I follow you but could you provide an example?
True, but I know a lot of people think this way when they want to write a movie idea. Ever been to a beginners screenwriting class? It's fascinating to hear students pitch their ideas to the rest of the class because about 90% of them had never really written anything down before that wasn't a term paper or a letter, and almost all had certainly never verbally explained their ideas to anyone. So, of course, a lot of their pitches are messes.
Their ideas have only existed in their heads up to that point, and even then it's usually only a handful of moments from the "story". They can only visualize and verbalize chunks of ideas--a lot derived from other movies--that have no narrative tissue to connect them together. But almost all of them feel compelled to include what I call "trailer moments":
"...and then he fights the bad guy on the edge of the building..."
"...the killer is dressed like Michael Myers but he carries a battke axe and he uses it to chop the kid's face off...", etc.
My thoughts exactly. That's why I think a strong emphasis on set pieces early in the writing process is a bad idea. It should be about the story and the characters first and foremost. Everything else comes after that.
-- Artman009
kylekmd
Well-known member
If you're writing from THEME, METAPHOR, and SYMBOL/LEITMOTIF, your set pieces will naturally flow from and interconnect with character and story. Every story decision you make will become part of a cohesive whole. Sounds vague, I know, but that's what theme and metaphor do for you.
You shouldn't ever "wait" to design your set pieces if your theme/metaphor calls up great ideas early in the story-breaking process.
Putting the breaks on any inspired idea or set piece just because it's too early doesn't make sense to me. Seems stifling, limiting.
I think we're saying the same things just in different ways.
You shouldn't ever "wait" to design your set pieces if your theme/metaphor calls up great ideas early in the story-breaking process.
Putting the breaks on any inspired idea or set piece just because it's too early doesn't make sense to me. Seems stifling, limiting.
I think we're saying the same things just in different ways.
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Artman009
Active member
Agreed, but I said it better. Kidding!
Now back to the original post...
Randall, what's the movie idea you had in mind (just curious)?
-- Artman009
Randall_Oelerich
Veteran
Asking more in general, to see how many writers here use set pieces in their writing. I try to incorporate them into my feature screenplay(s). Especially my current feature which is an action-horror set in a very interesting world where I will be able to utilize some nice set pieces for both mystery-thriller and action-horror aspects of the story.