Sell your videos on Vimeo ..

Did you hear that?

That's the sound of the power shifting from the producers and distributers to the filmmakers. It's about bloody time!
 
It will be interesting to see this play out. We all have watched the music industry go through its 'change of life'. I would say the consumer has won in the music space and the bands have lost. Now the bands have to do all things, be all things and they lost the shot at the really big pay day that used to exist. Now they slog around trying to win followers one by one through social media and show per show instead of having the resources of a Sony or BMG to put out a media blitz. Plus they get to be part of the millions of other options on itunes or Amazon.

Yes it is a fine line but big distribution and production is needed to some extent. Consumers en mass often need a simple choice. Maybe enough has been learned from the music model that the film/video model will be 2.0
 
squig said:
Did you hear that?

That's the sound of the power shifting from the producers and distributers to the filmmakers. It's about bloody time!
Click to expand...

I keep hearing this. But there is a huge downside to this kind of thinking.

Firstly, I'd rather spend my time writing and shooting than doing what a producer does.

Secondly, if producers think your script isn't any good, then maybe you should re-think your script. I've read hundreds of indy film scripts, and most of them are poorly written. They get rejected not because the producers are idiots but because they actually know what will appeal to an audience and why.

Lastly, without promotion, no one will care about your film. Promotion takes time, and money.
 
I spent 20 years in the music business and ran my own label. Artists were just as piss poor then as they are now. Apple created a monopoly and the artists get paid just as poorly as they used to. Most of the "big pay day" money has always ended up in someone else's pocket. Vimeo are giving 90% back to the artists, musicians are lucky if they get 20%. Big distribution and production isn't necessary at all, I recorded an album in my attic, distributed it independently around the world, and won a national music award for best album. And that was 13 years ago before things went viral. Then I signed a deal with a major and got screwed.

Digital cameras + crowdfunding + fair trade online distribution + guerilla and viral marketing = a thriving indie film industry and hopefully a lot of great independent films.
 
Robert Ruffo said:
I keep hearing this. But there is a huge downside to this kind of thinking.

Firstly, I'd rather spend my time writing and shooting than doing what a producer does.

Secondly, if producers think your script isn't any good, then maybe you should re-think your script. I've read hundreds of indy film scripts, and most of them are poorly written. They get rejected not because the producers are idiots but because they actually know what will appeal to an audience and why.

Lastly, without promotion, no one will care about your film. Promotion takes time, and money.
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C'mon are you trying to say that people actually like half of the marketing campaigns, erm I mean movies that producers make? Sure there's tonnes of crap indie scripts, just like there's tonnes of crap Hollywood scripts. Am I the only guy with a good script who doesn't want to be fed to the sharks?

An ounce of creativity is worth more than a tonne of money.
 
Robert Ruffo said:
I keep hearing this. But there is a huge downside to this kind of thinking.

Firstly, I'd rather spend my time writing and shooting than doing what a producer does.

Secondly, if producers think your script isn't any good, then maybe you should re-think your script. I've read hundreds of indy film scripts, and most of them are poorly written. They get rejected not because the producers are idiots but because they actually know what will appeal to an audience and why.

Lastly, without promotion, no one will care about your film. Promotion takes time, and money.
Click to expand...

Promotion takes time and money? I suggest that you take a social networking seminar. It's pretty easy to promote a product on FB, Twitter and such.
But, the thing is that "IF" this were to take out the producer and the studio, the individual is going to have to finance the film themselves. This Vimeo selling won't kill Hollywood. It's a good alternative for the Indie product. But hey, Apple TV already has an Indie genre and I bet it did very little to change the hierarchy of the process.
Apple didn't kill the music industry. We killed the music industry by stealing song on the internet. Apple made it easier for music to be purchased. I can now buy a song while waiting on a traffic light directly to my phone. Apple has a monopoly on it because they perfected a product to do so. Did you know that if you would have invested in Apple what it cost to buy the first Ipod when it launched, you would be a near millionaire?

It takes money to record an album or film a movie. And that is where producers and studios come in and will remain. To do this on your own will still be a 1 in a million chance of making a hit. But at least the chance is there. Vimeo's angle is hoping for that 1 in a million hit. Maybe it's squig's good script that will be that 1?

The Academy just had it's 85th awards show. 85 years....
 
Of course this does not change what it takes to make a good movie, which has been discussed in thousands of threads here at DVXUSER. What this changes is the drastic lowering of the cost of the delivery of self distributed content. The folks that I know that are self distributing are spending a good bit of money and time actually having to have discs made and shipped. Cutting out those efforts and expenses could be very significant.
 
squig said:
I spent 20 years in the music business and ran my own label. Artists were just as piss poor then as they are now. Apple created a monopoly and the artists get paid just as poorly as they used to. Most of the "big pay day" money has always ended up in someone else's pocket. Vimeo are giving 90% back to the artists, musicians are lucky if they get 20%. Big distribution and production isn't necessary at all, I recorded an album in my attic, distributed it independently around the world, and won a national music award for best album. And that was 13 years ago before things went viral. Then I signed a deal with a major and got screwed.

Digital cameras + crowdfunding + fair trade online distribution + guerilla and viral marketing = a thriving indie film industry and hopefully a lot of great independent films.
Click to expand...

I agree. Vimeo is just turning into Netflix, not by business model, but by wanting to be the gatekeeper of content. Have you ever shopped an indie film to them? Remove the producer and remove the distributors, and you just get another type of distributor in it's place. If anything, the producer is necessary to strong arm the distributor.

Netflix is becoming a monopoly in it's own way. Sure they accept indie films, but on absolutely rough terms for the filmmaker. This is the way it's always going to be. Do you think anyone is going to create some sort of socialist distribution site that will grow and become big without being sold to some big corporation or something?

Out of the pan and into the fire. Vimeo will start out sounding like a college green hippie, but if this thing takes off, it's more going to be just another suit giving you 10% of whatever YOUR film makes.

Not being pessimistic, but realistic. I don't think the system will ever be fair to the small guy. Hopefully I am wrong.
 
David Jimerson said:
For which you get "likes" by the container-shipload, but almost zero financial return.
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If so, that's the fault of the person who targeted for the "likes," because obviously they targeted the WRONG people. I've used Facebook and social media almost exclusively to market my indie film to great success. Lots of blessing along the way, and yes money spent, but money well spent. It's not how it always goes, but by no means are all likes empty. You gotta weigh out how much you get per copy sold and how many likes you can afford to get without a sale. It's not that complex...just takes a calculator and some guts.

http://www.facebook.com/standingfirm

I'm very excited about this honestly. Though, my market isn't huge on VOD (yet) but it's great that this option is available for those who know who their audience is and what they want. If they're a big VOD customer, this is a good option as is iTunes and others. In this case though your margins are far higher! Very similar to a DVD if you made a finished goods deal or something of that sort. Sell it for $9.99...make $8.99. That's more then you'll get in a typical DVD distrib deal. So if you can sell even a handful, it's a good profit for your investment.

I think this is a good move on their part and will likely draw some good crowds. I know I'll be figuring out a way to use it on my next film...if it fits into my pipeline and I figure the demand is big enough. In this case it doesn't cost what it does to get on iTunes which includes encoding fees which are hefty amongst other things. Vimeo will make this far EASIER and cheaper since all you need is a Vimeo Pro account (which I already have).

Thanks Vimeo! :)
 
KyleProhaska said:
If so, that's the fault of the person who targeted for the "likes," because obviously they targeted the WRONG people.
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Not my experience, nor that of quite a few others. It's one of the primary reasons Facebook stock took a tumble. And of course by "almost zero," I meant number of sales vs. "likes."

Of course, it also depends on what your goal is. Do you just want to make some money on the side and maybe recoup production? Then perhaps it's fine, if slow. Do you want to run a business? Different thing entirely.
 
Hmm well I've had a totally different experience but I guess I'm the exception. Facebook is what's primarily responsible for keeping the film going over a 2.5 year period. 3 years this August. That includes re-marketing the film as it hit VOD, Cable, Redbox, etc. all back to the same fans while also targeting some new.

Very little else was done to market my film outside of some blog posts, reviews on a few sites, etc. and we've done very well.

I recouped most production costs the day it hit a shelf. Again, not trying to paint a fantasy picture here, but social media in my opinion is one of the MOST powerful tools available to indie filmmakers at the moment. Not enough know how to leverage it to their advantage.

A page of 10,000 heavily active fans is worth more then 100,000 sorta active or mildly active ones. I'm not sure where my film would be without Facebook.
 
KyleProhaska said:
Hmm well I've had a totally different experience but I guess I'm the exception. Facebook is what's primarily responsible for keeping the film going over a 2.5 year period. 3 years this August. That includes re-marketing the film as it hit VOD, Cable, Redbox, etc. all back to the same fans while also targeting some new.

Very little else was done to market my film outside of some blog posts, reviews on a few sites, etc. and we've done very well.

I recouped most production costs the day it hit a shelf. Again, not trying to paint a fantasy picture here, but social media in my opinion is one of the MOST powerful tools available to indie filmmakers at the moment. Not enough know how to leverage it to their advantage.

A page of 10,000 heavily active fans is worth more then 100,000 sorta active or mildly active ones. I'm not sure where my film would be without Facebook.
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If you're happy with what it's done for you, then great.

But I've tracked multiple products through multiple venues over several years, and Facebook is responsible for (much) less than 1% of sales. We do 50 times as many sales on Amazon without doing anything to promote it there, and Amazon is a minor source of sales.

The only reason I posted was because of the idea that "promotion is easy; just put an ad on Facebook!" And you absolutely can get tons of "fans" that way, but making money? An entirely different thing. Getting fans IS easy. Selling product isn't so much.

There's no reason not to try, but promotion of the kind you can actually take to the bank -- and sustain a business on -- is hard work.
 
David,

I get at least two paid jobs a month just using FB and networking. I don't even manage a website anymore. When I meet somebody in my industry I exchange facebook info. Then, while I'm working on a project, instead of blogging to a website, I blog to my Facebook so all my other contacts can see what I'm doing and what I'm working on. I make sure to go to most of my industry banquets, functions and ceremonies to "show face". I can't count the times peers in my industry mention a post I did on Facebook and they follow up with, "call me, I have a project for you to do". Facebook helps me stay in the "eye" of my clients who are connected with me on the platform. I'd say that 60-70% of my marketing these days come from FB. THen there is twitter, linkedin, etc etc.
 
dustylense said:
David,

I get at least two paid jobs a month just using FB and networking. I don't even manage a website anymore. When I meet somebody in my industry I exchange facebook info. Then, while I'm working on a project, instead of blogging to a website, I blog to my Facebook so all my other contacts can see what I'm doing and what I'm working on. I make sure to go to most of my industry banquets, functions and ceremonies to "show face". I can't count the times peers in my industry mention a post I did on Facebook and they follow up with, "call me, I have a project for you to do". Facebook helps me stay in the "eye" of my clients who are connected with me on the platform. I'd say that 60-70% of my marketing these days come from FB. THen there is twitter, linkedin, etc etc.
Click to expand...

And that's what peer-to-peer networking is for. I get inquiries, too, and I handle nearly all of my audition announcements, etc. that way. (Gearing up to do so again soon, too.) But promoting a product isn't the same thing at all.
 
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