Sell me on Vegas! issues with performance

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dippytwitty

Member
Hi guys,

Looking for an NLE, Vegas is the package I "want to like" - features seem right, and I'm probably already getting Cinescore & ACID so it'd be a good fit. Sadly, my initial experience was, well, disappointing.

I'm hoping you can confirm that the performance will be what I had hoped, and that I just had problems because of the limits of the 30-day trial... here's the scenario:

New machine, dual-core Pentium D 3.6GHz 2GB, Nv7600GT-KO, RAID. 2nd monitor is 24" 1920x1200 so I want to preview full-res. Optimistic? Read on...

Bought Pinnacle cuz it's cheap and available (have to mail order almost anything else where I live) Was able to preview HDV real-time, even with some filters applied. Great! But, more filters and it drops frames plus there are some instability issues.

Got the demo of Edius Pro 4. WOW! Racehorse- transitions between two tracks, some filters, no problem. Use their HQ codec, and CPU is free for more filters, chromakeying and compositing. Sweet. Downsides are fewer features, very few add-ons available.

Got the demo of Vegas 6. Bad news- can't drop my footage into it. Capture's disabled, and it doesn't like my footage captured with either Pinnacle or CapDVHS. So I used DVFilmMaker to convert to a 24p AVI. Opens in Vegas BUT -ouch- 1fps playback at full res. Shrunk down previews at lower qualities work, but after driving the first two products, this felt like driving semi-blind :(

So--- please share your experience! If you're using a machine comparable to the above, what kind of full-res preview can you do? Two tracks? Some filters? Transitions? I'm curious about the results in these scenarios:

1) Raw HDV footage (1080) captured in Vegas or elsewhere
2) CineForm codec built into Vegas
3) Cineform Connect-HD (better performance?)
4) Pre-processed through DVFilmMaker, VirtualDub or similar

Thanks in advance for any help- for what it's worth... also like any experiences on the niggly details:

- Footage was Sony HC-1 sorry if that offends in a Canon forum :Drogar-BigGrin(DBG)
- Didn't try Premiere, think there's a demo. One advantage might be use of the GPU to accelerate previews, especially transitions or keying. Any experience?
- Apparently no pre-rendering (aside from dropping a render back on the timeline) in Vegas?? Maybe in v7? Pinnacle did it in the background, but did everything, and slow. Edius was GENIUS: one keystroke pre-rendered any bits where it dropped frames during the last preview. And FAST.


Have a great weekend,
Dip
 
Vegas is probably the easiest semi-profession editing software you can get. I jumped from premiere to final cut pro to avid and then to Vegas.

My personal rating:

Editing speed
Vegas>Avid/FCP>Premiere

Editing with graphics/effects
->Edit in Vegas first then use After Effects


Vegas's Build in Graphics/title is not as good as others, but everything else is great.
 
Last edited:
MovieSwede said:
This is a panasonic forum.
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LOL My bad- too many other cams out there to keep track. Testament to this forum, though- good user base and discussions cover all topics, not just the dvx...

MovieSwede said:
And just test the vegas demo. Give it 2 days and you are sold.
Click to expand...

Um- did you read my post? I gave it a week, actually, and as I said, the performance was abysmal, which is why I'm hoping it was because of the single scenario it allowed me to test- which was DVFilmMaker output files.

Do you use it to edit in full-res normally? Could you give me an example of just how much you can get away with and still get real-time full-res preview? That's really all I'm after...

Thanks!
Dip
 
cinetao said:
Editing speed
Vegas>Avid/FCP>Premiere

Editing with graphics/effects
->Edit in Vegas first then use After Effects
Click to expand...

Thanks a bunch cinetao, this helps a lot- did you use all 4 systems on HDV content?

I guess I'm not 'sold' on AE because by itself it looks like it just does titling, and tv-style effects, not what you'd use in film. It's a pretty expensive place-holder for the 3D/particle software out there, but I guess if that's the workflow that gets the job done, so be it!

Thanks again,
Dip
 
dippytwitty said:
I guess I'm not 'sold' on AE because by itself it looks like it just does titling, and tv-style effects, not what you'd use in film. It's a pretty expensive place-holder for the 3D/particle software out there, but I guess if that's the workflow that gets the job done, so be it!
Click to expand...

Dip, What do you mean "tv-style" effects? Not really sure what your distinction is here.
 
HDV presents a performance problem for editing... some NLEs are better than Vegas in terms of HDV performance. Edius for example is very good at decoding HDV.

With Vegas, the fastest method is either:
A- Use the Cineform intermediate codec.
B- Use a fast machine (i.e. dual core dual Opteron; not sure about core2)... it'll almost give you real-time HDV editing.
C- Vegas 7...? :D
 
Many thanks

Many thanks

MisterCat said:
Dip, What do you mean "tv-style" effects? Not really sure what your distinction is here.
Click to expand...

I mean titling, 3D animation of simple objects, and fancy scene transitions. Those are very popular (and effective) in broadcast news, sports, and mini-promos in television, but few films use those types of things. Obviously it has several things that are used in film too, like color filters, motion blur etc but those are often found right in the NLE anyway.

I guess I was asking what you could use instead of Particular or Cinema 4D. I've done some looking around since, and you can get a "Foundation" edition of Softimage XSI for $500 (under $300 educational) and I think that would be awesome. It doesn't do all that AE does, but I think it does more what I'm looking for, which is 3D and particle anims for compositing.

glenn chan said:
Use a fast machine ... dual core dual Opteron ... it'll almost give you real-time HDV editing
Click to expand...

*sigh* that's what I was afraid of. After seeing the others manage it (admirably, in Canopus' case) in real-time, I was hoping Vegas could too, but I keep seeing that word "almost" and that scares me off. Paying the $200 for ConnectHD doesn't bother me, if I could get some concrete idea of performance. I will be asking around locally to see who might have it, that would be the best thing. Too bad the demo didn't provide that though.

Thanks all, for the advice and info!
Dip
 
dippytwitty said:
I mean titling, 3D animation of simple objects, and fancy scene transitions. Those are very popular (and effective) in broadcast news, sports, and mini-promos in television, but few films use those types of things. Obviously it has several things that are used in film too, like color filters, motion blur etc but those are often found right in the NLE anyway.

I guess I was asking what you could use instead of Particular or Cinema 4D. I've done some looking around since, and you can get a "Foundation" edition of Softimage XSI for $500 (under $300 educational) and I think that would be awesome. It doesn't do all that AE does, but I think it does more what I'm looking for, which is 3D and particle anims for compositing.
Dip
Click to expand...

You seem to be confusing AE's purpose with that of a 3D program. Softimage XSI is a 3D app, not a compositing app. While AE can handle particles and motion graphics very well, it's not in the same category as a 3D suite. Just thought I would point that out. AE is extremely useful, and for far more than just "fancy scene transitions". :D
 
Agreed with ovjamaica. You should do some more research on these software websites to see what they actually do. AE is considerably more than you are thinking, but it is not a 3D program. It does create 3D effects but not true 3D like Maya. Good luck to you in whatever you decide!
 
ovjamaica said:
You seem to be confusing AE's purpose with that of a 3D program. Softimage XSI is a 3D app, not a compositing app.
Click to expand...

Sorry, I think rather I've confused the both of you. Let me re-state my question - I'll try and be totally clear:

Given AE is *not* really a 3D program, but is required for some of the popular 3D programs (like Particular and Cinema, which are only available as AE plugins) are there other options out there that don't require two seperate purchases, do a nice job, and lower the price bar for getting some 3D compositing done?

Softimage is one solution I think pretty ideal, Just wondering if there are other obvious choices out there not to overlook.

Thanks for joing in though,
Dip
 
Vegas comes with the Cineform codec. Connect HD just streamlines the workflow.

The Cineform codec should allow real-time *playback* on a fairly modest computer. In terms of real-time *effects* in Vegas versus another NLE, that depends on what effects you use.
 
Hey Dippity,

Just thought ud be glad in knowing. AE was used for most of the compositing for VAN HELSING. AE is a very powerful compositing software. Not an effects generation software as its name sounds. Its akin to COMBUSTION. Its got very good keying capacities. Ive seen it being used in a number of top hollywood movies. Because when i see the making of FX features on the dvd i would see the spl effects guys screen showing the work being done in AE. But i personally dont use AE ive done my official 3ds max training. But found AE having a very non-intuitive interface. Same with combustion. Then i found VEGAS. And also found that with some workarounds you could almost replicate what you would accomplish in a compositing software within VEGAS itself. The bezier masks within vegas open up a world of possibilities when it comes to compositing. Quality of the output wise AE is supposed to give film quality sizes and untarnished quality. Ive not tried that because i dont do celluloid film work so i cant say about Vegas' stand on that factor. But i love Vegas because it never crashes. And it can manage a very good number of video layers etc. Also its audio is supposed to be real good compared to anyother NLE. But im not adept at audio so i wont bifurcate on that element. I started with Max and have now learnt Vegas to an extent (and i keep learning with help from members here). I wish i cud show you some of my composite projects thru wmv but i dont know how to post clips and images on this forum yet. LOL. :)
 
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