Selective Focus: what would I need?

Randall_Oelerich

Randall_Oelerich

Veteran
I have a simple Canon VIXIA HF100 little burrito consumer camcorder. If I wanted to gear up to do some shooting with a selective focus prosumer camcorder, what would I need, how cheaply could I go? I would want to move up to a prosumer camcorder. I have a couple of Canon EF lenses for my 35mm digital Canon cameras, so I am hoping those lenses could be used. So would I just need to buy a prosumer camcorder that e.g. a Letus apparatus would attach to, rails for the Letus, and then use my existing Canon 35mm EF lenses attached to the front of the Letus system? That is about the extent of what I think I know about selective focus. Hoping someone can guide me in my conception, explain what I would need to buy to do selective focus shooting. I plan to film a 20 minute drama short this summer, a step up from my first 5 min short I did last October, and it would be nice to shoot the 20 min short this summer, as well as future shorts and eventually an indie feature, with selective focus equipment.
~randall
 
Howdy Randall

I'm going through a bit of this myself. If you go the 35mm adapter route yeah you'll need rails, a 35mm adapter (obviously), and lenses at the very least. You also might need a follow focus and an external monitor. The follow focus is nice to keep your hand off of the lens if tracking focus alot and especially if you are going to have a dedicated focus puller. The monitor is almost a necessity with many cameras as they just dont have high enough resolution lcd's to precisely focus with. Then you need some way to mount a monitor and then you might want to go handheld so you need a shoulder mount and grips and then you get a giant pimped out rig. Check out Zacuto's camera packages here for some examples of how big you can really get them - http://www.zacutoimages.com/f715117107

If you have the budget to support it and can get away with a large rig by all means do it and take a good long look at Zacuto's stuff. I've got quite a few bits and pieces from them and they make life so much easier. You only buy once with Zacuto too - top quality, lifetime warranty, and its versatile enough to work on your next camera and the one after that. Off my Zacuto soapbox though.

As for which camera people are using everything from the HV20 to Sony EX3's and even HPX500's with 35mm adapters. If you're on a budget look at the smaller cameras like the HV20 - great looking images coming out of them.

Take a long hard look at everything you'll really need though - your lighting gear is going to need to be beefy to put out enough light for 35mm adapter work. They're getting better but they still really eat light once you stop your camera down to 5.6, the adapter eats a half-stop at least, and then your 35mm lens is at 4-5.6 or so if you want a little DOF at least. Shooting at 1.8 the whole time is a bit of a drag as far as narrow DOF.

What I've decided for myself is to go with a D90 - small, light and inconspicuous. Yeah it has its shortcomings, but it has its plusses like the small size and its great low light abilities as well as beautiful color rendering. Its a personal thing though. I want small fast and light so I can go in and shoot and get out and get to the next setup with a small crew and small camera package that wont hinder the telling of the story.

Have you thought about renting though or borrowing a camera package? Perhaps borrow one with a DP attached to it? Then you can concentrate on the directing and let him or her run the camera. Its a good way to try out a system with little to no investment and not completely wasting thousands of dollars on something you decide you dont like in the end.

So there, thats my thoughts on 35mm adapters and narrow DOF. Oh and dont forget there have been quite a few films with a very deep DOF that did just fine. The camera will never hold you back if you have a good story and have good actors that will tell it well. I'd worry more about having good audio than good imagery if you havent gone down that road yet. Much more distracting to have it not sound real and convincing than to have a background out of focus IMO.
 
If I were to stick with my little Canon VIXIA HF100, it looks like this Letus adapter with support rods would work with my Canon EOS EF 35mm SLR camera lenses, right?
http://www.letusdirect.com/cart/letus35-mini.html
If that is the case, I am confused on a couple of things: (1) what about the zoom feature of the camcorder, is that basically disabled when the Letus adapater is being used (so that instead of the camcorder zoom being used, the SLR lens zoom is used?)? (2) I do not understand the support rod system for the Letus, if it is needed or not for the little Letus adapater used on the small camcorder such as my HF100; seems a support rod system would be a good thing, looking at the photos on the page at the link above, but then their shopping cart options make it more confusing-- a choice of no rods, or a 30cm complete rod support system, or a 30cm + 15cm complete rod support system. Why would I want a 15cm versus a 30cm rod support system, or why would I want the 30cm + 15cm complete rod support system over just the 30cm support system?
 
I dont know the HF100 at all but if it has means for screwing on filter and the threads are 43mm or less in diameter you are good. You're also going to need to have the HF100 be able to lock focus iris and gain. I just dont know if the hf100 can do that.

As for rails they're an option at checkout because you might already have rails, or you might want a different set or who knows what. Unless you are going to stick with small cameras all your life, you might want to look at a full size adapter so you can move up to a larger camera if you wanted to. The mini is small and light though so it does have that going for it. As for the rail length, that's up to you? You might need longer rails if you plan on adding accessories or using really long lenses or alot of variables. You *might* be able to get away without rails all together but I would definitely use one. No need to put all that weight on the lens of your camera.

Unless you are dead set on the letus check out the other offerings too - have seen some interesting non-flip rigs with the camera actually mounted upside down. Havent ever used one like that but its an interesting thought at least.

oh and yeah the zoom is pretty much set on the camera. You can zoom in a bit but you may or may not notice a change in the grain size that might look odd when you do. Otherwise dont zoom or use a zoom SLR lens.
 
That helps a lot Jim. So I am gathering that the Letus or similar system is thus attached to the camcorder lens (which must be locked regarding zoom, gain, etc), then the e.g. Canon EOS 35mm SLR lens is attached in front of the Letis system. Sounds like I could then use my zoom Canon SLR lens to focus, zoom, etc. Or I could and perhaps should buy a fixed SLR lens like a 50mm with a wide aperatre like f2 or whatever to minimize depth of field. Starting to make some sense.
 
Yeah thats pretty much how it works. The 35mm lens projects an image onto the ground glass which is now the "film plane" the video camera the is focused on the ground glass capturing this image. As far as zooms go be aware that you may need a very fast lens if you intend on shooting without large amounts of light. And fast zooms aren't cheap. Beware of autofocus lenses not having the smoothest focusing rings always nor do they have much throw making focusing hard. Older manual focus lenses tend to have a much better feel and more throw in the focusing mechanism making the focus puller's job a good bit easier. Also look into the EOS lenses and what may or may not work - you'll want to be able to change the aperture at the 35mm lens and I know there are some issues with some lenses and certain adjustments that can be made to get around the issue, but I dont know much more than that. I'm more acquainted with the Nikon side of things. Also make sure your lenses you intend to use are full frame - many newer lenses for DSLR's are for aps-c sized sensors which are much smaller than a full 35mm sensor. These wont provide enough image to cover the ground glass of the adapter.

Would also start really looking at DOF even if its just through your SLR - f2 on a 50mm lens can be extremely narrow - like 6 inches. I'm all for blurry backgrounds but when the nose is in focus and the ear isnt the look can be a tad overdone. Play with a DOF calculator and start really thinking about how narrow you want it to be. http://www.dofmaster.com/dofjs.html is one of my favorites. Take a look at Hunter Richard's 600 ft short he did (its here on the forums) while testing his 16mm camera. Really nice amount of DOF if you ask me, and thats just a 16mm. 35mm is a good bit narrower at similiar fields of view.
 
What do you mean when you use the phrase "pull focus"? Does this mean that the Letus or other adapter is pulled or pushed backward or forward along the rail system to manually focus each short, or something like that? I have done a lot of 35mm SLR photography and never used nor heard that term, so I am guessing it has something to do with the rail system?

Also, *if* i bought a digital camcorder that allowed exchanging lenses, i,e. has a removable lens (not sure what models do that, but they must exist even in the prosumer market?), could the whole Letus type system be avoided by then just buying wide aperature (fast) 35mm lens to put on the camcorder, and thus still obtain shallow DOF?
 
Sorry, "pulling" focus is no just changing the focus - usually tracking an actor as he or the camera (or both) move through the scene. Could also be racking between two objects.

If you bought a digital camcorder with a removable lens you'll still have the DOF that the camera normally has. If its a RED One, then yeah it'll look great. If its a canon xl2 its going to look like a 1/3" camera and have deep DOF. Thats assuming there is an adapter for the xl2 to fit 35mm lenses. So it really depends on the camera, but in short no there isnt a cheap prosumer interchangeable lens camera that gives 35mm DOF (or close to it) without a 35mm adapter. EXCEPT for the d90/5dmkII but both of these have their own set of limitations since they are DSLR's first and foremost. D90 is my solution to the problem though.

How much are you shooting? If there is any way you can rent and play with different cameras, do it. IMO the stupidest thing you can spend alot of money on is a camera. Buy lights. Buy audio. They dont change. Cameras change everyday and unless you are going to be a DP I wouldnt buy a camera or adapter. Too much of a changing market. Different projects mean different cameras too to me at least. Some need light and fast, some might warrant a RED or something fancy. Buying gear is fun but it wont make your movie any better. Buying talented people to make your movie will though. I would strongly urge you to find a DP in the Duluth or MSP area (its not that far of a drive - better pool of actors there anyways probably). With a good script and some good producing on your end (everybody is willing to make a deal) you can get everyone to work deferred or damn close to it. Then you get to learn from someone that has some experience and learn the pitfalls of whatever camera system they have. Let them spend money on stuff. Heck I'd do the same thing for a sound guy.

My theory is that I know you've invested countless hours in the script and that if you have good actors they are going to invest countless hours in to rehearsing and learning the character and all that so it's your responsibility as the producer to not let them or yourself (as the writer) down by making a crappy movie. Bring in pros and you'll be doing everyone a favor. It doesnt need to be a huge crew. Heck just a sound guy and a DP and maybe a couple of grips would be plenty for a low budget shoot. But doing this will not only raise your production to a whole new level, but also alleviate some of the stress on you trying to DP and direct and produce and all that jazz. You can just concentrate on directing your actors and making it the best damned movie you can. Trying to wear all of those hats is just a disservice to your crew actors and yourself. You can still learn it all - just learn it from the pros and working with them as opposed to making mistakes (costly ones at that) and learning from those mistakes.
 
On the Letus forum, one of their people said that I could buy the Letus extreme (instead of the smaller model for my little burrito camcorder VIXIA HF100) so I could use the Extreme in the future for a prosumer camcoder such as for a Canon XHA1; and that I could simply use some stop down rings to adapt the Letus Extreme to my 37mm lens ring of my little Vixia HF100. I am on a quest to figure out that whole step ring thing, just posted a question about that on Letus's forum, will report back.

That would solve a lot of headache decisions, let me delay what model of prosumer camcorder to get. I wish camcorders like the Canon XHA1 would just add in AVCHD functionality, and solid state, that would be such a no-brainer decision, I would snatch that up in an instant. Perhaps that is the way things will go in a year? I am amazed at the video quality of the little VIXIA, 1920x1080. Although I sure could use the better manual control and low light capabilities of the XHA1 or something like that especially for use with a Letus. Although I think if I put on a fast prime lens (wide aperature) on the Letus it should work even with a little Vixia HF100 (my burrito camcorder as I call it), right?
 
Not a problem at all.

I have been using the extreme with sony SR1 and A1U and panny NV-EV21 successfully. I have 77 mm ring and achromat set for EX1. Order step ring from 77 to 37 to 30 from BH. image wise, it look great with perfect sharpness edge to edge.


it is a real pain to do focus with letus on. My advice is practice practice and practice. it is real hard to get focus right for a beginning like me and maybe you as well.
 
I have heard it is real difficult to use the manual focus feature on the canon vixia hf100 that I have, a pain in the ass. That makes me a bit leary to try the Letus with it, but what the heck, I will at least get the Extreme and the step down ring adapter, so I can use it with a better prosumer camera down the road. Or maybe I will make the leap and just buy the Canon XH-A1s.


golf_bht said:
Not a problem at all.

I have been using the extreme with sony SR1 and A1U and panny NV-EV21 successfully. I have 77 mm ring and achromat set for EX1. Order step ring from 77 to 37 to 30 from BH. image wise, it look great with perfect sharpness edge to edge.


it is a real pain to do focus with letus on. My advice is practice practice and practice. it is real hard to get focus right for a beginning like me and maybe you as well.
Click to expand...
 
Opps don't get me wrong. focusing the GG it quite easy. some camera with no focus ring could be a + as you don't have to tape your ring to keep it in focus. the hardest thing is doing focus on the manual lens.
 
So you are saying I might not have issues focusing the Canon VIXIA HF100 (my little burrito camcorder) on the ground glass of the Letus unit, but that the tricky part is manually focusing the 35mm lens on the far end (nearest the actor)? (what is "GG" by the way?).

golf_bht said:
Opps don't get me wrong. focusing the GG it quite easy. some camera with no focus ring could be a + as you don't have to tape your ring to keep it in focus. the hardest thing is doing focus on the manual lens.
Click to expand...
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top