Seeking MIcro Budget Feature advice

biginvegas, there is a HUGE difference between the guy who has spent tons of time near nice big cameras (1st AC) and a DP. Most ACs don't have a clue about managing crews (even small ones), the politics of the set (and behind the set), the importance of one shot over another (as unlike DPs they didn't get to see tons of beautiful but useless shot thrown away in the edit)... etc, etc. All that and we still are not talking about the experience of learning to light fast and efficiently (as pro DPs have) and importance of picking only the most important shots as there is always only so little time on the set... So your advice about hiring a cheap guy who usually does AC jobs is simply not good.

OP,
truth is there are 4 positions that will cost you money (and can truly help make or break your film): DP, soundman, editor, producer. Get the best you can afford in those 3 categories and your job will be SOOOOOO much easier.
 
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"DP, editor, producer." Maybe a good sound mixer should be on your list. Of course as cheap as quality gear is becoming, maybe you have a lot more choices for sound these days.
Ed Burns recent feature "Nice guy johny" had a crew of three (25k budget).
 
lambert said:
"DP, editor, producer." Maybe a good sound mixer should be on your list. Of course as cheap as quality gear is becoming, maybe you have a lot more choices for sound these days.
Ed Burns recent feature "Nice guy johny" had a crew of three (25k budget).
Click to expand...

Definitely agree to find good sound gear and people.

Like that Ed Burns still makes his own movies still. I figured he'd have to get back to Micro Budget stuff. I'll be interested in checking that one out.

-Martin
 
A lot of interesting advice.

My first question--how'd you get the $150,000?

"Hello, I’m writing a character driven, 90 - 95 min. HD feature, which I plan to direct as my first feature. It would be all shot in and around the same big farmhouse.
Much of the action takes place in the family room/kitchen and in two bedrooms. There are some night scenes in the yard and on the porch. (A guy with a gun chases his girlfriend around in the dark)"

OK -- based on this, it is in no way certain that I'd want to see this film. Is there some hook? Is there something special about these people we haven't seen before (if so, best to start promoting it sooner rather than later, you only get so many chances to influence a potential customer).

Is this a true story?

Is there something unique about the guy who goes nuts with a gun?

I saw a fantastic low budget film from Spain, about a guy who accidentally goes back in time several hours, causing all kinds of havoc to his life. It's got a couple of neat twists, and at some points there are 3 or 4 versions of himself running around getting into all kinds of trouble. Had like 3 or 4 locations.

And that brings me to the location problem -- I'm really sick of one house (and farmhouses in particular) "feature" films. I get bored with one location in a 5 minute short. I hardly think I'm alone here in this day and age.

All the Hollywood styled advice about hooks and loglines still applies here, I feel. What's your hook? Why would anyone care to plunk down money and risk 90 minutes of their infinitely valuable time? Answer that first, before you risk $150K. That's serious change.

If the only answer is that you think it will get you somewhere in festivals, then good luck.

I don't go to festivals...
 
Patryk,

With all due respect you should now better. All Dp's were at one stage in their careers assistants. For a micro budget feature that is being discussed here to hire the smart AD who has shot a reel, is hungry, talented, resourceful and as technically proficient as his superior is a no-brainer. I have the greatest of respect for cameramen but lets be real it's not brain surgery.

AC's I know are there every step of the production alongside his boss and quietly go about the job that is required of them. For you to assume that they have no clue to the politics of a crew, the on-goings on a set and never see the footage is pure arrogance. The ambitious and smart AD listens learns and understands everything that is going on-set and uses that experience to run their future crew.

Dp's often come with baggage, get stuck in their old methods , are prone to intimidating and dictating to 1st time filmmakers rather than listening. They also charge more for their services.

Likewise employ the assistant wardrobe, assistant sound guy etc. It's not just about a cheaper rate, it's about finding energetic fine minds .

Most important you the filmmaker/director must come into an interview with a cameraman knowing what he wants first. The collaboration after that for good or bad is the final result of that encounter. If the director is unprepared and indecisive the film will reflect that no matter how experienced or inexperienced the cameraman/crew is.
 
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Yeah Martay it's nice to see Ed Burns back to the low budget stuff. It's nice to see how candid he's has been about not returning a penny to an investor that completely bankrolled a 4mil production he directed and starred in. Whether you like his films or not you have to respect a guy that will honestly discuss those situations and real numbers.
It's no longer a badge of shame to make a 25k feature after making bigger budget studio films. "Tape" "Full Frontal " "Land of Plenty" are all examples of well known directors 'slumming' in that super low budget ballpark and going back to bigger budgets. It kind of baffles me why when distributors are giving no advances, or for a a few thousand dollars owning all your rights forever if you chose to sign, and unless you hit a one in a million success not giving you a penny back (usually major litigation involved) why spending hundreds of thousands of dollars on a first features seems a wise decision. If you've got it and you want to spend it fine, go for it but please have a great script and understand many good films in certain genres (no matter who is in the cast or how good) no body wants to see (beyond your firiends and family) and be prepared. Also consider that vod or self dist dvds might be the only way your film might be seen and consider that in your budget calculations.
Last year or two a Uma Thurman film opened up in London at major theatre and over the weekend it brought in less than hundred pounds (pulled quickly). Budget might have been in the 5-8 mil range.
 
biginvegas,
If only I counted the amount of times that i asked my camera crew to move the camera, and yet the debate about the best possible angle still continued with the director and even though we were debating just 3 feet away from the camera crew there were so in the zone of their camera-related work that didn't even hear about our change of minds until i specifically asked to move the camera to yet another spot... A good camera crew is dedicated to their craft and their craft doesn't really involve (and allows) to snoop around to see how the rest of the set is doing. If they area attentive they might pick up on some lighting schemes based on the lights in the room but are oblivious to all the lights outside the room. And all of the above is a sign that they are really good at what they do! Your comment reflects certain simplistic approach to filmmaking: DP'íng is all about making shots pretty - NOOO! It's about making shots appropriate for the story and you don't learn that without the experience. Yes, it's not brain surgery but it's also not as simple as you are believed it to be. I mean, would you really want your precious film to be shot by a guy who only knows about pretty shots (as this is where the education starts)? (BTW, the same applies to the other positions mentioned above - oversimplification of their role leads to predictable results...).
 
Great posts - Thanks

Great posts - Thanks

Great posts, great info, guys. I’m inclined to agree with Patryk on the experienced DP. Even when it comes to PA’s – I had two guys on my last short who were a god-send. They lived together/worked together, set up/break down/police the area with very little help from me. I got to concentrate on my actors.

To answer a previous question, I haven’t raised any money for this yet. I’m just writing the script and I wanted to know if a character based drama shot in one location could be done in high quality for $100-150k.

It’s basically a love story between a green college kid and a street wise girl who’s boyfriend’s a biker with a gun.

I checked out your reels Patryk – very impressive.

I got a lotta great info from this thread – did not expect it – Thanks Craig
 
$150K will disappear faster than you think. I recently finished a 20 minute short and we burned through almost $50K. We achieved massive production value and we had 1 small set to build and 4 locations (2 company moves). Shot on a RED with professional crew working on favors for massively discounted rates. Actors (5) were paid SAG ULB ($110/day). It was a 4 day shoot. Had an ACE editor cut it and a post house color it and master. $50K for a 4 day shoot with no names but great production value.

What we did have to deal with is people jumping ship to better paying gigs. We lost our DGA 1st AD right before production (a feature came along). Everyone else on set got $110/day which was the minimum we could pay to have workman's comp covered by PayReel (the payroll company we used). All of the executive producers and myself (director) worked for free. Composer only made $1500.

Get a producer that knows their stuff. You'll be blown away by how fast the money disapears, even when everything is massively discounted, and in our case, even donated. The RED package was donated but the Zeiss Primes were only discounted.
 
Snazzy Flapper said:
$150K will disappear faster than you think. I recently finished a 20 minute short and we burned through almost $50K. We achieved massive production value and we had 1 small set to build and 4 locations (2 company moves). Shot on a RED with professional crew working on favors for massively discounted rates. Actors (5) were paid SAG ULB ($110/day). It was a 4 day shoot. Had an ACE editor cut it and a post house color it and master. $50K for a 4 day shoot with no names but great production value.

What we did have to deal with is people jumping ship to better paying gigs. We lost our DGA 1st AD right before production (a feature came along). Everyone else on set got $110/day which was the minimum we could pay to have workman's comp covered by PayReel (the payroll company we used). All of the executive producers and myself (director) worked for free. Composer only made $1500.

Get a producer that knows their stuff. You'll be blown away by how fast the money disapears, even when everything is massively discounted, and in our case, even donated. The RED package was donated but the Zeiss Primes were only discounted.
Click to expand...

Snazzy, Thanks for the reply. I’m curious as to what size of pro crew you had and how complicated was your shot list?

1. How many on camera/lighting crew? One sound guy or two?
2. Crane, dolly shots? Car mounts?
3. Do you prefer SAG actors?

Thanks, Craig
 
Theres alot of confusing art and business going on here. None of the microbudgets that mattered, had stars. El Mariachi wasn't a "different era". How many microbudget producers have tried to imitate it and failed. El Mariachi was good filmmaking. That era never goes away.

Stars don't make a good movie. Never have, never will. Never in the history of moviemaking has a star made a bad movie watchable. I dare you to count the number of shitty garbage unwatchable flop movies ROBERT DE NIRO has been in, starting with Righteous Kill. Stars can fool people into going to see a movie, or make a certain amount of money back (by virtue of this fooling), but they cant make it good.

If I had that loot, Id spend 95 percent of my energy on the script, and the other 5 percent on hiring a capable crew to light and shoot it (oh yeah, and making sure I cast well and to type)...

No offense, but your synopsis doesn't sound like you're off to a good start.

Case in point-

El Mariachi's logline/concept is already ten times better than yours (more intense story problem, a visual hook)...and no, it doesn't have anything to do with the fact that it was an action film.....

Pi's concept blows yours out of the water.

so does the idea for Sex, Lies, and Videotape (different era? umm...no).

Hire the best writer you can find?
 
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We had a pretty small crew. 1st AD, DP, 1st AC, DIT/PA, Boom Op, Sound Mixer, Hair/Makeup, Child Welfare, Scripty, Grip, Key Grip, Gaffer, Best Boy. I'd call it a minimum professional crew. These guys all knew what they were doing. All pros. Nobody learning on the job. Still they made $150 day tops except for the DP and Sound.

We shot in only 3 major locations, 3 moves. Built one set for $500. Shot a few RC helicopter sequences for $1K (1/4 their normal day rate). Grip equipment was really light. Shot on a donated RED ($0) with discounted Zeiss primes ($1K for a week). It was a period story, so we had to have 4 costumes made ($500) and spent another $300 in props.

We spent around $5K in Post for color, editing (used an ACE editor) and composer. And we budgeted $1K for festival submissions.
 
Snazzy Flapper said:
We had a pretty small crew. 1st AD, DP, 1st AC, DIT/PA, Boom Op, Sound Mixer, Hair/Makeup, Child Welfare, Scripty, Grip, Key Grip, Gaffer, Best Boy. I'd call it a minimum professional crew. These guys all knew what they were doing. All pros. Nobody learning on the job. Still they made $150 day tops except for the DP and Sound.

We shot in only 3 major locations, 3 moves. Built one set for $500. Shot a few RC helicopter sequences for $1K (1/4 their normal day rate). Grip equipment was really light. Shot on a donated RED ($0) with discounted Zeiss primes ($1K for a week). It was a period story, so we had to have 4 costumes made ($500) and spent another $300 in props.

We spent around $5K in Post for color, editing (used an ACE editor) and composer. And we budgeted $1K for festival submissions.
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Very cool, snazzy. Thanks for the details. Sounds like you economized quite well - CT
 
If interested you can check out a micro budget short (ten minutes) I wrote that's on youtube "Edge of 290". If we submitted to five film festivals it would have doubled the budget, thats how low it was.
 
lambert said:
If interested you can check out a micro budget short (ten minutes) I wrote that's on youtube "Edge of 290". If we submitted to five film festivals it would have doubled the budget, thats how low it was.
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Lambert, I just watched "Edge of 290" I thought it was great! Strong narrative line with minimal dialogue - my shorts are kinda dialogue heavy. I thought it was creative and professional.
I was wondering:
1. What camera you used?
2. Did you record the guitar sound track in a studio?
3. Was the song at the end donated, or did you pay to license it.

Thanks - Craig
 
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Craig-
This is the director of "Edge of 290"-- Thanks for the kind words--
1. - We used a DVX100b
2. - The composer (Anne McCue) recorded the guitar in her home studio.
3. - With permission from her and Messenger Records, the song was donated for as long as the short does not make money. If and when it does, we re-negotiate.

Olson
 
lambert said:
"DP, editor, producer." Maybe a good sound mixer should be on your list. Of course as cheap as quality gear is becoming, maybe you have a lot more choices for sound these days.
Ed Burns recent feature "Nice guy johny" had a crew of three (25k budget).
Click to expand...

I have been searching for a few minutes now on what camera he used. Was that a dslr? Appreciate it if someone had the answer.

Thanks!
 
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