ReelWorksMedia
Well-known member
The skin tones on that monkey are way waaaay off.
'See Impossible': Canon counts down to... something. *UPDATED*
- Thread starter joe1946
- Start date
ReelWorksMedia
Well-known member
I'm totally kidding of course.
Jim Martin
DVXuser Sponsor
I'm trying to stay out of this but I can't....."the C300 is a great camera but a terrible overall value"??????? I'm not sure where, how, or why you are making that assumption. A VERY large amount of cameras have been sold, it continues to be the hottest rental camera in town and it's rental price has held for almost 3 years (most camera rental price falls at the six month mark). It's doing everything from "A" camera on features to weddings and everything in between. People were/are getting their cameras payed off in a matter of 3-5 months. People who did leases with Canon Financial were/are paying them off early.......so, how could it be a terrible value? There are not alot of used C300s on Ebay...why? because they are working.....and new ones are still selling, why? because they are working. Our rental dept's 20+ units are always out. The biggest rental company here in town has around 150 C300 cameras and they are always working. So, terrible overall value?... it sounds like a great value to me...and obviously to many others. I'm not trying to beat you up but I have gotten really tired of posters making general, incorrect statements that are completely inaccurate... all in the name of unrealistic expectations or in boasting that lesser expensive products are just as good or better than something that is ten times or more the price ("my GH shoots a better picture than the Alexa" was actually posted!).The C300 is a great overall camera, but a terrible value for sure; It will continue to depreciate badly just like the C100. Upon the C100's arrival I was quick to say how it would depreciate badly in a relatively short time (met with mostly disagreements, of course) and probably lose nearly half its value within a 2-3 years. Well, less than two years in and it's already lost almost half of its retail value even faster than I thought. Not to mention it's at least $1,000 overpriced right now given the alternative offerings. I bought a BMPCC to hold out until something more fully featured comes within the price range of a C100 at least. It doesn't have much room for depreciation.
Regarding the 5D Mark III, in my opinion it is a better overall value for one's money & still arguably a good deal due to all of the amazing Magic Lantern features, especially RAW video. Here is exhibit A) on why the Mark III is still potentially worth it (personally I find it more valuable to me than the C100 because of ML)....and the image itself, I believe, will show why....some of the most beautiful footage I've ever seen on any camera:
OK, I'm feeling better...and wasn't that a run-on sentence!
Jim Martin
EVSonline.com
Andrius Simutis
Veteran
All this comparison of spec sheets reminds me of fantasy football. A lot of time wasted, a lot of meaningless bluster, but in the end only a small team of professionals have won the Superbowl and gotten paid.
William_Robinette
Shallow Member
Guys, Canon isn't depriving you of running water or access to sustenance. Nobody is "suffering" through anything, come on. That's practically insulting to say.
Canon products are great.
...If there were only Canon products out there. But there are plenty of manufacturers. And once again Canon is falling behind.
After leading a market, they rest on their palms and see every other company surpassing them. It happened with the XL line of video cameras eons ago, where they owned the market. It happened with compact digital cameras, it has happened with DSLRs and it's happening with the C-line as well.
For the last few years I se Canon's Marketing DPt working harder than the engineering Dpt. This is absurd. C-series (300) were introduced with all the noise at Hollywood, with an Scorsese speech... who cashed the check and went to shoot with ALEXA's, as the C series were just 8 bit cams for news and cheap realities.
Any company lives on sales. Every week. every month, every quarter. Not on past sales. Who's going to buy a C100, C300, C500 today? or the 5D/1DC/7D for video?
In the EU the C500 was €25k, and and such you could only shoot 8bit 25p 422. For €5k more you can get an AMIRA. The C500 is dead. And so is the C300 at such price.
The 5D3 has been smashed by everybody else on the video front, because Canon didn't move from the 5D2. And on the photo-front, sooo many shooting hi-res fashion/mags/ads (under Hassy level) or weddings have gone Nikon (white+black dresses need a lot of DR).
And on and on.
But the Marketing Dpt is oh so busy.
Almost all I've bought for the past decade was from Canon. I don't see this going any further.
...If there were only Canon products out there. But there are plenty of manufacturers. And once again Canon is falling behind.
After leading a market, they rest on their palms and see every other company surpassing them. It happened with the XL line of video cameras eons ago, where they owned the market. It happened with compact digital cameras, it has happened with DSLRs and it's happening with the C-line as well.
For the last few years I se Canon's Marketing DPt working harder than the engineering Dpt. This is absurd. C-series (300) were introduced with all the noise at Hollywood, with an Scorsese speech... who cashed the check and went to shoot with ALEXA's, as the C series were just 8 bit cams for news and cheap realities.
Any company lives on sales. Every week. every month, every quarter. Not on past sales. Who's going to buy a C100, C300, C500 today? or the 5D/1DC/7D for video?
In the EU the C500 was €25k, and and such you could only shoot 8bit 25p 422. For €5k more you can get an AMIRA. The C500 is dead. And so is the C300 at such price.
The 5D3 has been smashed by everybody else on the video front, because Canon didn't move from the 5D2. And on the photo-front, sooo many shooting hi-res fashion/mags/ads (under Hassy level) or weddings have gone Nikon (white+black dresses need a lot of DR).
And on and on.
But the Marketing Dpt is oh so busy.
Almost all I've bought for the past decade was from Canon. I don't see this going any further.
Matt Gottshalk
Resident Preditor
Hilarious.
Run&Gun
Veteran
The C300 is a great overall camera, but a terrible value for sure; It will continue to depreciate badly just like the C100. Upon the C100's arrival I was quick to say how it would depreciate badly in a relatively short time (met with mostly disagreements, of course) and probably lose nearly half its value within a 2-3 years. Well, less than two years in and it's already lost almost half of its retail value even faster than I thought. Not to mention it's at least $1,000 overpriced right now given the alternative offerings. I bought a BMPCC to hold out until something more fully featured comes within the price range of a C100 at least. It doesn't have much room for depreciation.
Regarding the 5D Mark III, in my opinion it is a better overall value for one's money & still arguably a good deal due to all of the amazing Magic Lantern features, especially RAW video. Here is exhibit A) on why the Mark III is still potentially worth it (personally I find it more valuable to me than the C100 because of ML)....and the image itself, I believe, will show why....some of the most beautiful footage I've ever seen on any camera:
WHAT?! Owning a C300 is almost a license to print money. I've been in this business for almost two decades, now and I (still lol) own two Betacams, a tape Vari and two P2 Vari's and I've never had rental requests for ANY of my gear like I have for the C300. I make money off of it without having to even use it. And until Canon dropped the price on it recently, they were still selling on the used market for almost as much as they were new.
Plexi Head
Active member
Plexi Head
Active member
Thanks for the inside information. Producers, directors and editors I work for are all fools because they keep telling me how much they love the footage from the C100.
Samuel H
Major Contributor
OK, let me try to go again at it...
* My complaints come from MY perspective, which is: I know Canon makes great cameras, but they are way more expensive than I can afford. If they are not for you, well, congrats, and I can see how you would think Canon is catering to your needs, but I think you are a relatively small share of the market.
* So, for me, saying the 5D3 is soft and the 7D2 is horrible and every other Canon DSLR feels ancient, and having the reply being "well, spend 10x as much on a C300", is laughable.
* But I know I'm an even smaller share of the market than many of you are. The problem is, the really big share are photogs, and they are just as negative towards Canon as I am, or more. Check out the comments in the dpreview news bit. Narly all of them are negative. Enthusiast pohotogs are laughing at Canon. That can mean "no more Canon" 5 years down the road.
* My complaints come from MY perspective, which is: I know Canon makes great cameras, but they are way more expensive than I can afford. If they are not for you, well, congrats, and I can see how you would think Canon is catering to your needs, but I think you are a relatively small share of the market.
* So, for me, saying the 5D3 is soft and the 7D2 is horrible and every other Canon DSLR feels ancient, and having the reply being "well, spend 10x as much on a C300", is laughable.
* But I know I'm an even smaller share of the market than many of you are. The problem is, the really big share are photogs, and they are just as negative towards Canon as I am, or more. Check out the comments in the dpreview news bit. Narly all of them are negative. Enthusiast pohotogs are laughing at Canon. That can mean "no more Canon" 5 years down the road.
Ok, I admit some of canon camera's are great. Like the 10 grand c300... or the 20 grand c500. Not to mention the 1DC. I guess as an enthusiast, I can admit these cameras are great..... but these camera's are out of my price range. I am not a professional. I don't pretend to be one. I just want to take great videos from equipment that wouldn't cost me an arm and a leg. I want value. There are many more people like me who buy equipment at the 2-3.5 grand level and below. Obviously, on this forum, there are people who make a living with their equipment so 20 grand for a body is no big deal. God bless you people. I have no beef with you guys.
However, canon's more mainstream equipment -- 5d3, 7d2, 70d, etc.. These devices are lacking -- they are not innovating. They are falling behind other devices from other manufacturers in the same market segment (GH4, blackmagic, Sony, etc). It's getting ridiculous.
The only thing I can assume is that Canon wants to be like Red or Arri. Canon wants their best equipment to be rented, not owned. If that's the case, good for Canon. I don't think I'll be buying their bodies for a while (as most people). Also, I will not be renting their equipment because as a non-professional, I like to own.
At the end of the day, this conversation is HILARIOUS. The competition in the market segment where I spend my money is constantly moving. More and better products are being created every year -- almost every quarter. If canon does not want money from people like me (and their a lot more people like me, i.e., more $$$$$$), fine. I am beginning to just don't care... but please, don't insult our intelligence with a slick advertising campaign in the guise of "innovating" ... Their main stream cameras are not "innovating..." They kinda suck. Canon's image is taking a beating (so is the image of their high end cameras - reverse "halo effect").
There is a saying, "Win on Sunday, sell on Monday"....... but, come on, are you really trying to sell model T's on Monday?????? Canon's top level cameras are good, but their bread and butter camera's are falling so badly behind, they are becoming a joke. Is canon in the business of selling imaging equipment to the masses? Or do they want to be another Red or Arri? Remember Red has at most 500 employee's and Arri has about 1,200 employees. How many employee's does canon have? 22,000... granted canon has other departments other than Imaging... but do you really think canon can survive just catering to the high end market -- the rental market???? I highly doubt it and I think they know it. Why else would they create this advertising campaign if everything was so peachy???? Hahahahahaha.. whatever.. We have so many options.. and the number of options constantly grow.. other than sentimental reason (Canon did inadvertently kick off the dslr video revolution) who cares about canon? whatever canon.. people are starting to dismiss this company out of hand...
Alpha Beta Omega
Veteran
In Canons defend I got my 5Dmk3 in 2012 and today it works and looks like brand new. I've dropped it into concrete, I've used it in rain and cold weather. I've shot thousands of stills, days of video and hours of raw video with ML. I've pushed and manipulated it in post with very good results. It's a workhorse that keeps on going. Innovative? Compared to all the new fantastic features from the likes of Sony I would say no.
If they truly have something amazing up their sleeve that can compete great. If new Canon cameras still is behind the competition not so great but whatever comes it will be good tools that lasts a long time.
If they truly have something amazing up their sleeve that can compete great. If new Canon cameras still is behind the competition not so great but whatever comes it will be good tools that lasts a long time.
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Do you just rely on internet chatter for your consensus though? The most vocal complainers on the internet are the ones that have no interest in buying the product anyway (or any comparable product). They want the world for nothing and will cry when it isn't delivered in a timely manner.
My brother is a still photographer and Canon is still very much the de facto camera for various types of still work... the enthusiast market tends to follow the pro market, though iphones and the like are obviously killing off alot of that market.
Canon may or may not profit from the enthusiast market (still or video)... Maybe they are not too bothered? One thing for sure is that internet negativity does not always indicate real world views... The C300 is perfect proof of this.
I can't see what the naysayers are mumbling about 5d mark iii. That camera is still beast. Soft? So what. Just shot some interviews today, made some money, and the interviewed looked great because it isn't razor sharp. Do that with your innovative a7s. (Which I do own and kinda like).
Plus 5d ml raw beats the pants off anything that isn't Alexa/Red.
Plus 5d ml raw beats the pants off anything that isn't Alexa/Red.
Since when is the internet not the real world? Canon's youtube video has been seen by 340,000 people. For every one who gave it a thumbs up, 5 have given it a thumbs down. These are people who are interested in Canon cameras, a self-selecting group of consumers who took the time to watch the video. They're the very people Canon is targeting with the campaign.
Regardless of the merits of Canon's products, this campaign is a disaster. Who in their right mind, other than navel-gazing marketeers, would think it a good idea to put up a teaser for ... well for nothing, for some meaningless ad-speak?
There clearly *is* a lot of frustration with Canon at the moment. Before this campaign, that frustration was unfocussed, expressed in odd comments here and there. The campaign has focussed it. It's now an internet meme that Canon are falling behind their competitors. I bet you that they see that very much as a real-world problem.
Michael Thames
Carbonite Member
There is a lot of Canon hate out there...... and this is directed towards the DSLR market. It's almost funny to watch these GH4 reviews by Dave Dugdale, Caleb Pike, and just about every other amateur/professional film maker who reviews the GH4. The common theme to all of these guys is they are pissed at Canon, and selling all their Canon cameras and lenses! The 5D3 is now a piece of crap....... blah blah blah! Emotion always trumps rational thought, I would at least keep a 5D around for low light, or shallow DOF shoots. Personally, I'd keep it around for every shot.
I mention the GH4 because lets face it, that's what this is all about. Something about the Sony A7s I just can't get excited about, maybe its the Sony glass!
These guys reviews are great entertainment..... it's always amazing to watch someone shoot themselves in the foot live and on camera.
I mention the GH4 because lets face it, that's what this is all about. Something about the Sony A7s I just can't get excited about, maybe its the Sony glass!
These guys reviews are great entertainment..... it's always amazing to watch someone shoot themselves in the foot live and on camera.
That kind of backs up my point... These people are faceless internet folk. Maybe they are Nikon trolls... Maybe they are indie film makers who feel cheated... Maybe Canon's target group are those 1 in 5 people who liked it and spend $10k+ on their gear?
We just don't know. So why give them too much credit? Isn't it better to guage how the industry itself is judging Canon... I'm sure as hell that is how Canon do it.
But my point above, and the point of others before me is that no matter how hard the internet cries Canon... In the real world, Canon have a hugely successful line up of cameras and lenses, both in the photography world and the video/film world.
ntouched
Well-known member
These are never ending discussions. Everyone knows Canons pattern of business. We'll see the next update of "C" line cameras at NAB 2015 (and yes, the new C100 will have a higher bit rate and slo mo)! We all know of the success of the C300 (it will be updated with 4K)! I'm very much enjoying using my C100 (2nd time around with the C100 after selling my GH4). Various tools for all users. I'm still waiting for the Panasonic AF200! Anyway, whatever works for you, that's the best equipment!
ReelWorksMedia
Well-known member
I think we can all agree on one thing...
We all love to hate loving all of the lovely images these crappy, revolutionizing, late launching, overpriced and extremely worth it to some, cameras can produce. I for one am in love with hating that I love Canon so bad that I hate hating the fact I love them...cause they suck....in a great way. Thats what she said.
We all love to hate loving all of the lovely images these crappy, revolutionizing, late launching, overpriced and extremely worth it to some, cameras can produce. I for one am in love with hating that I love Canon so bad that I hate hating the fact I love them...cause they suck....in a great way. Thats what she said.