sd302/hvx/mkh416/cmc6mk41-line level???

S

scribbles

Active member
Hi all,
I have been attempting to record the best signal to noise ratio possible with this microphone setup. I still have a lot to learn so forgive my ignorance. I can get 'great' audio when using the mic input and output, but I wasn't able to get a reading when using line inputs and outputs. I understand it is better to use line? This is how i set everything up:

1.hvx set to -50db and mic alc turned off, input 1 and 2 set to line level, phantom power turned off
2.switched everything to line level, 48v phantom power,turn on sd302 and put on 1khz tone
3.adjust hvx input levels so that the square white dots hit the first white line(-20db)

am i missing something??
 
Sounds like you had your mic inputs on the 302 set to line as well. That is the mistake. All microphones output mic level, it takes an amplifier to bring them up to line. (this is why you bought the 302) So set the inputs of the mixer to mic and set your outputs on the 302 to line level (there is no hardware switch for this on the 302 but by factory default they should be at line level, if not you need to refer to the manual to see what the software code is to switch them to line) should be getting good levels now.
 
What do you mean by "can't get a reading?" Are you saying there's no indication on the camera's meters when speaking into the mic connected to the mixer? Your header says you're using a 416 and a CMC641 - both at once or one at a time? Is there an indication on the 302's meters when speaking into the mic? If not...

Assuming 1 mic, your choice, connected to mixer input 1 try this checklist...

Camera audio input SET to line
Camera 48v phantom OFF
302 output level SET to line (default)
302 48v phantom ON
302 input sensitivity switch SET to 'mic'
302 power ON
302 tone ON
Camera audio inputs SET incoming tone to meter -20dBFS
302 tone OFF
302 ch1 fader SET mid range (0 mark, knob indicator pointing straight up)
302 ch1 pan switch SET centre
302 headphone select SET to '1' (PFL Listen Input 1)
Speak into mic
302 ch1 input gain trim knob (popout knob next the fader) ADJUST for 302 meter indicator in yellow zone on speech
302 headphone select SET Mono
Camera meters CONFIRM normal speech to the mic should cause the camera meters to read between -20dBFS and -12dBFS when the mixer meters are reading in the yellow.
 
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you guys are amazing! thankyou so much, all is well now. only one more question-
which do you guys prefer for metering? when you're looking at the levels on the 302, what setting do you use?
 
sorry everyone. just to clarify. i want to make sure i'm getting the best possbile audio i can.

i followed steve's directions just fine. but when i go to make my adjustments to the gain trim knob, i have to turn it up past halfway, maybe even three quarter of the way, to get proper levels in camera. on the 302 my speech is registering between -20 and -12(i just see green dots, no yellow, which is why i ask if maybe i have my metering settings wrong), but in camera the levels are much lower.

i set my hvx's levels(during the 1khz tone adjustment) to be set at -20db(the first white line to the left), is this correct?? my hvx's audio knobs are turned about a quarter way around.

i'm holding my mkh416 about 2-3 feet away from the subject when doing this test, you'd think i would get a big response, but they aren't registering much higher than -20/-16 unless i bring the shotgun really really close, and thats on the 302. on the hvx the levels barely get to -20
 
scribbles said:
sorry everyone. just to clarify. i want to make sure i'm getting the best possbile audio i can.

i followed steve's directions just fine. but when i go to make my adjustments to the gain trim knob, i have to turn it up past halfway, maybe even three quarter of the way, to get proper levels in camera. on the 302 my speech is registering between -20 and -12(i just see green dots, no yellow, which is why i ask if maybe i have my metering settings wrong), but in camera the levels are much lower.

i set my hvx's levels(during the 1khz tone adjustment) to be set at -20db(the first white line to the left), is this correct?? my hvx's audio knobs are turned about a quarter way around.

i'm holding my mkh416 about 2-3 feet away from the subject when doing this test, you'd think i would get a big response, but they aren't registering much higher than -20/-16 unless i bring the shotgun really really close, and thats on the 302. on the hvx the levels barely get to -20
Click to expand...

A meter reading of '0' on the 302 (first yellow LED) should read -20 on the camera for tome, between -20 and -12 on the camera for speech. Once you set the HVX for tone don't touch its level knobs again. Keep the 302 in the yuellow with its fader.
 
your swift response is appreciated but still leaves me with unanswered questions:
1. when reading levels on the 302, what setting does everyone prefer to use?
2. on the hvx, is the first white line on the left hand side is for sure for sure -20db?
3. is it 'okay' that i have to turn the gain up that high? i find the audio gets really crunchy and muddy and horrible when i turn the gain up really high, i'm assuming you get better audio by keeping it lower? where is everyone elses coarse gain adjustment usually at, when using my set up.
 
With the 302/schoeps/hvx combo, I set my 1khz tone to -20 on the hvx. I have my peaks up at +16 on the 302 (-4 on the hvx).

The gain is on the 302 is usually up most the way with the fader at unity. Since the 302s pres are so clean, this is not a problem at all.
 
scribbles said:
your swift response is appreciated but still leaves me with unanswered questions:
1. when reading levels on the 302, what setting does everyone prefer to use?
2. on the hvx, is the first white line on the left hand side is for sure for sure -20db?
3. is it 'okay' that i have to turn the gain up that high? i find the audio gets really crunchy and muddy and horrible when i turn the gain up really high, i'm assuming you get better audio by keeping it lower? where is everyone elses coarse gain adjustment usually at, when using my set up.
Click to expand...

How far from the mics are your sound sources? The inverse square law applies to sound - increasing the mic/source distance from 1 foot to 2 feet will cause the mic output to drop to 1/4 the initial level. Moving it from 2 feet to 4 feet will cause it to drop to 1/4 of the level it was at 2 feet or 1/16 the level it was at one foot.

As for exact levels on the 302 meters it depends on the mode (VU or PPM) you have the meter set in. In general, the nominal operating level is in the yellow zone. Your camera level controls ideally should be at about the middle of their range. If they're above 75% when tone is at -20, you need to put some pads in the line between the mixer and the camera or reduce the mixer output level, if they're below 25% you need to increase the output level of the mixer. As for the position of the coarse gain ("trim") controls on the mixer's channels, they'll depend on the output of the mic in use. One of the things you pay for in a quality product like the SD mixers is, as 'sane' points out, quality preamps that will sound good over their entire operational range,

The level of the coarse gain control will also depend on the mic itself. For example, you mentioned you have a Schoeps CMC641 and a Sennheiser NKH416. For the same intensity of sound hitting the microphone, the Sennheiser puts out almost twice the voltage that the Schoeps does (25mv/Pa for the Senn versus 13 mv/Pa for the Schoeps). That right there will lead to a quite signifigant difference in the setting of the gain control when switching from one mic to the other.
 
Whenever I use a 302, it's always in a run and gun situation. My settings for the DVX/HVX cameras are this:

- set your 302 to attenuate -6dbu instead of 0. (internal menu change, an orange light will illuminate on the side of the indicating you are attenuating the signal at less than line level) . I wish the 442 had this feature.

- keep the hvx200's inputs still at line level, camera trim will be around 11 o clock when you hit it with tone and align at -20dBfs tone. The first white hash is -20dBfs for sure.

- set your limiters at +16 on your 302.

With these settings, even with the limiter deactivated on the 302, it will be very difficult to distort the hvx200 keeping you on the safe side which again for run and gun where you are booming and mixing, you need this.

Select the ppm hold and vu metering scheme and monitor the hvx200 either through the headphone jack or better yet the rca outputs.

Try it out with the 302 hooked up to the hvx or even dvx. Record some samples, yell directly into the mic and try and distort the 302 with the limiter lights glow bright orange. Take that sample and listen in your DAW or NLE.

You'll know what I mean.
 
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