SD 302 Full Scale Tone

berniebeaudry

Well-known member
I have a SD 302 and I'm curious if any other 302 owners use the "advanced gain structure" method to line up the meters with your recording device. I would like to hear about the pros and cons of working this way. I interface with a number of different cameras and the metering is all over the place. Some of the older Beta SP camera/deck meters are particularly tricky. There doesn't seem to much room above zero on the scale yet the meters aren't very responsive till you hit it harder and then its a tightrope between getting strong level and getting close to clipping. If I listen to the return loud enough to hear what I'm doing I sometimes hear clipping on the peaks but I don't know if its distortion from the headphone circuit feeding both channels of the camera at too loud a level or its the tape really distorting. A playback direct from the camera would tell me for sure, but there often isn't time to do that. Any advice about lining up metering with different cameras would be appreciated.

I've also been considering buying an outboard 48volt power supply for my mics (Schoeps CMIT5U, and Peluso CMEC-6). Do you think this would give me better performance from these mics than what I get using the internal 302 power? And if so, what unit would you recommend? Sometimes the mics don't seem to have as much gain as I would like, but perhaps I'm being too conservative on the trim pots. Another reason I would use an outboard supply is the Peluso mic causes the mixer to go into oscillation if I don't use the 160hz high pass filter on the mixer and I increase the gain beyond a certain point. It happens with mics that have extended low frequency response. I can use it this way and it still sounds alot like the Schoeps hypercardiod mic, but would like to be able to use it without the filter if I can.
All in all its a great mixer and I use it and a 442 quite often and want to get the most out of them and deliver the best sound possible. I've been doing field audio for a long time and I've recently become addicted to reading this and some other audio forums and its because I like to learn how to do the job better/easier/faster and throw in some help to someone else if I can. The mixer who I boomed for early on in my career gave me a good start and taught me alot about this business and then implored me to pay it forward. Its good to see the professionals on this forum have the same attitude.
One last question. Do you finance your equipment purchases or do you just get what you need to do the work as it comes in? I'm looking for ways to complete my partial package.
Regards all,
Bernie
 
Bernie!
I have used the full code output to setup other recording devices, and I like this method. Although I'm concerned about using it too much on cheaper cameras, as I don't want to fry their electronics. Very troublesome that these 'flavor of the month' cams don't have metering numbers.

However, when setting up an anolog BetaSP, I wouldn't use the full code. Consider max level into BetaSP analog is around +14dbu, with it's metering zero being +4dbu. Consider using the 302 -20 tone and setting to -6 on the Beta. I used to use -10 on the Beta meters. Others say -4 on the meter. I'm sure other forum 'oldtimers' will come in on this one.

Now, that Schoeps CMIT should have no problem running on the 302. 302 has 10ma +48 on each channel, and also plenty of gain. 60db on the trim and another 15db on the fader. Turn up the trim 2/3 to 3/4 of the way and use the fader if you need more.

Concerning your Peluso mic. I checked there website and Peluso says that mic will run on 3ma. If you are experincing 'motorboating' with the 302, there is something up with the mic, or the mixer. I have experienced this with one T-powered Schoeps CMT441, mic probably 30-40 years old. I have another CMT441 that is just as old, and it doesn't do it. The CMT441 that 'motorboats' also does this on my SD MM-1 preamp.
This is a know condition with Sound Devices Preamps and certain microphones.

http://www.sounddevices.com/notes/field-mixers/oscillation-with-transformer-balanced-inputs/#more-30

They would like to here from you to determine if it's the mic or their preamp. Adding an external phanton supply will take care of the problem, but really should not be necessary.
 
clarification?

clarification?

Bernie!
I have used the full code output to setup other recording devices, and I like this method. Although I'm concerned about using it too much on cheaper cameras, as I don't want to fry their electronics. Very troublesome that these 'flavor of the month' cams don't have metering numbers.

However, when setting up an anolog BetaSP, I wouldn't use the full code. Consider max level into BetaSP analog is around +14dbu, with it's metering zero being +4dbu. Consider using the 302 -20 tone and setting to -6 on the Beta. I used to use -10 on the Beta meters. Others say -4 on the meter. I'm sure other forum 'oldtimers' will come in on this one.

Now, that Schoeps CMIT should have no problem running on the 302. 302 has 10ma +48 on each channel, and also plenty of gain. 60db on the trim and another 15db on the fader. Turn up the trim 2/3 to 3/4 of the way and use the fader if you need more.

Concerning your Peluso mic. I checked there website and Peluso says that mic will run on 3ma. If you are experincing 'motorboating' with the 302, there is something up with the mic, or the mixer. I have experienced this with one T-powered Schoeps CMT441, mic probably 30-40 years old. I have another CMT441 that is just as old, and it doesn't do it. The CMT441 that 'motorboats' also does this on my SD MM-1 preamp.
This is a know condition with Sound Devices Preamps and certain microphones.

http://www.sounddevices.com/notes/field-mixers/oscillation-with-transformer-balanced-inputs/#more-30

They would like to here from you to determine if it's the mic or their preamp. Adding an external phanton supply will take care of the problem, but really should not be necessary.

Thanks for your post! When you say -20 on the mixer are you talking about the 0vu/Peak=+2dbu meter reference setting? If you set the input on the Beta cam at anything other than zero on the camera won't that just mean that the editor will be boosting the -4, -6, or -10 tone to zero when he lines up the tone in post? Or is that what you want. I was using the +4 meter reference level for the Beta deck, but the meter has its zero way up near the top of the scale so a nice hot signal got too close to clipping to easily, and if I reduced the gain the metering went below zero too much. Thats why I was thinking the full scale tone would be more accurate.
The 302 powers my Schopes pretty well but I was thinking that an outboard phantom supply might improve the already impressive performance of the mic. Or I need to use an external dc supply for the mixer instead because I go through batteries too fast when running phantom.
I had the oscilation problem with a Charter Oak Acoustic M900 mic as well. I tried it on a few different 302s with the same issue. Thanks for the link to SD, I've reported the problem there so they can add these two mics to the list.
Thanks for your help!
Regards,
Bernie
 
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