Script writing conversation
- Thread starter Phil
- Start date
Jay Rodriguez
Coffee Member
thartley said:
LOL, I think about that everyday......
Jay Rodriguez
Coffee Member
And when I see head lines like what's below it makes me feel even worste... But hopeful too...
Newcomer Andrew Cochran, a 23-year old graduate of Tulane Univeristy, has sold his spec comedy Adult World to Paramount and MTV Films.
http://moviebytes.com/
Great site, thanks Barry!
Newcomer Andrew Cochran, a 23-year old graduate of Tulane Univeristy, has sold his spec comedy Adult World to Paramount and MTV Films.
http://moviebytes.com/
Great site, thanks Barry!
EJ Pennypacker
Well-known member
Yes, seeing quotes like "Newcomer Andrew Cochran, a 23-year old graduate of Tulane Univeristy, has sold his spec comedy Adult World to Paramount and MTV Films" does tend to send out the wrong impression to people about screenwriting. "Why don't you sit down for three days, hack out a 100pgs and sell it within two weeks" couldn't be further from the truth. Yes, people sometimes strike it rich and sell first time specs. But IMHO they make up less than 1% of specs sold per year.
I find Moviebytes a useful site for finding out about screenwriting competitions, but not much else other than that.
EJ
I find Moviebytes a useful site for finding out about screenwriting competitions, but not much else other than that.
EJ
Phil
Veteran
EJ Pennypacker
Barry
You guys are perfect to ask.
I understand that people read that quote and get amped and, as EJ said, some people will sit down and try to write and sell a script in 3 days...and that its really 1% of that type of "strike it rich" writers...
So what about the guys who have studied screenwriting, have taken months or years to write a single script, to get it into the best format and make sure the story doesn't have plot point holes, and who have continuously been writing for so long? We're still considered first timers...
So how does someone distinguish themselves apart from the 3 day writer? Or do we not? Do we just keep mailing Coverage Letters, synopsis, and query letters?
Barry is this why competitions are good? To have something to write in the query letter? Saying the things you've won and so on?
Barry
You guys are perfect to ask.
I understand that people read that quote and get amped and, as EJ said, some people will sit down and try to write and sell a script in 3 days...and that its really 1% of that type of "strike it rich" writers...
So what about the guys who have studied screenwriting, have taken months or years to write a single script, to get it into the best format and make sure the story doesn't have plot point holes, and who have continuously been writing for so long? We're still considered first timers...
So how does someone distinguish themselves apart from the 3 day writer? Or do we not? Do we just keep mailing Coverage Letters, synopsis, and query letters?
Barry is this why competitions are good? To have something to write in the query letter? Saying the things you've won and so on?
Barry_Green
Moderator
Exactly.Phil said:
You have to have some way to communicate to the reader that your script is worth reading. You have to understand, there are an unholy number of scripts registered every year with the Writer's Guild -- something like 40,000 projects were registered with the WGA last year (don't know if that includes treatments and one-page summaries, I would assume so).
So let's presume that of those 40,000 projects, 5,000 were screenplays.
How many of those screenplays were jaw-droppingly awful? I mean mind-numbingly horrid, can't read past the first two pages terrible? Probably 4950.
Of the remaining 50, how many were good enough to get a "recommend" rating from a qualified story reader? Probably 10.
Of those 10, how many were good enough that they'd get bought by a major studio? Probably two.
Which is why you'll read about one or two screenwriters each year getting their script bought by a major studio.
So imagine the situation for the buyers out there: they will be hit with 5,000 screenplays, and they know from past statistics that only 10 of them are going to be worth even looking at. How do they weed 'em out? How do they avoid the phenomenal waste of time that 4,990 screenplays will require?
Easy: they say "you have to have an agent first." Why? Because that makes the AGENT have to do the hard weeding-out work! It's not that the buyers necessarily want an agent involved; after all, the buyers are going to want to extort the best possible deal they can, and they could probably get a much better deal from a novice inexperienced writer than they will from a seasoned shark of an agent... but it's just not worth it to them. So they make you get an agent.
And so now it's the agent's job to wade through that 99.9% crappile in order to find the 10 that are worthy of reading. How do they do that?
Primarily, they need a "known" factor. Either you get recommended to them by someone they already work with, or you bring credentials with you. If an agent already represents someone and that person says "hey, you've GOT to read Phil's work, this guy's really good", then you'll get read. Almost guaranteed. Agents do need new writers, they just don't want to have to slog through the crappile to get them -- so they presume that qualified writers (who they already know are good) would be qualified to give them recommendations.
Or, barring that, you can win contests. You can bet your tuckus that the winners of the Nicholl, the Chesterfield, the Sundance Institute, Scriptapalooza, the Slamdance screenwriting competition, the Heart of Austin -- those winners are going to get read. Even as a Finalist and "2nd place winner" in the smaller contests I've been in, I've gotten many requests for scripts from agents. Note: those aren't agents that I pestered with a "query letter", those are agents who contacted me, told me they heard about my script and they wanted to see it.
If your script is good enough to win the Heart of Austin, then agents will definitely read it. Contests are just another way to shift the burden of "sifting the crappile" off of them and onto someone else.
EJ Pennypacker
Well-known member
Phil,
You asked: "So how does someone distinguish themselves apart from the 3 day writer? Or do we not? Do we just keep mailing Coverage Letters, synopsis, and query letters?"
Well, no agent/producer/etc, etc can tell if you worked 3 days or 30 years on a project just by query email/letter/fax alone (unless you mention it on that letter I guess). So I would hope most industry people would think you've spent plenty of time working on your script and making it the best you can get before it lands in their 'in box'.
There is one way in which you can seperate your project from the type of people who write a product over a weekend, and that's by developing it for a strong ammount of time and making it *better* than the three day attempts. It sounds simple. But that's because it is. I've read projects for companies that promise a half decent concept, only to find the execution to be lacking - which ultimately pushes the project into a 'pass'. A script gets invited for submission on the basis of the strenght of the coverletter/concept/premise/logline/synopsis. Then it's down to how you handle that concept by your skills as a writer. And this is where most people fall down...
Screenwriting competitions are helpful, but there are so many now that the field is reduced to only a few important ones each year. And how many of them actually start a writers career? Not that many. Competitions garner you short-term interest and $$$. Then that's about it. How many screenwriting competition winners, apart from PGL, actually have their projects made into features or sold? The number is not that impressive. By all means, competitions are useful, but you have to be careful which to enter, and not put all your hope into that one competition. Unless you can win something, IMHO industry people aren't interested in anything else. Being a finalist doesn't cut the mustard, being placed the 1st place does.
Research into your screenplay can be a useful thing to add when querying your project as well. As can listing any screenwriting education you might have.
But above all else, having that magic 'concept' will mean lots more than winning competitions when it comes to read request from agents/producers, etc. Then as I said, it's what you do with that story is whether you get something optioned/sold or hired for another gig.
EJ
You asked: "So how does someone distinguish themselves apart from the 3 day writer? Or do we not? Do we just keep mailing Coverage Letters, synopsis, and query letters?"
Well, no agent/producer/etc, etc can tell if you worked 3 days or 30 years on a project just by query email/letter/fax alone (unless you mention it on that letter I guess). So I would hope most industry people would think you've spent plenty of time working on your script and making it the best you can get before it lands in their 'in box'.
There is one way in which you can seperate your project from the type of people who write a product over a weekend, and that's by developing it for a strong ammount of time and making it *better* than the three day attempts. It sounds simple. But that's because it is. I've read projects for companies that promise a half decent concept, only to find the execution to be lacking - which ultimately pushes the project into a 'pass'. A script gets invited for submission on the basis of the strenght of the coverletter/concept/premise/logline/synopsis. Then it's down to how you handle that concept by your skills as a writer. And this is where most people fall down...
Screenwriting competitions are helpful, but there are so many now that the field is reduced to only a few important ones each year. And how many of them actually start a writers career? Not that many. Competitions garner you short-term interest and $$$. Then that's about it. How many screenwriting competition winners, apart from PGL, actually have their projects made into features or sold? The number is not that impressive. By all means, competitions are useful, but you have to be careful which to enter, and not put all your hope into that one competition. Unless you can win something, IMHO industry people aren't interested in anything else. Being a finalist doesn't cut the mustard, being placed the 1st place does.
Research into your screenplay can be a useful thing to add when querying your project as well. As can listing any screenwriting education you might have.
But above all else, having that magic 'concept' will mean lots more than winning competitions when it comes to read request from agents/producers, etc. Then as I said, it's what you do with that story is whether you get something optioned/sold or hired for another gig.
EJ
KingVidiot
Well-known member
Barry_Green said:
I thought it was common practice not to buy scripts from amateurs (no union or agent) since the whole "you stole my idea" type of scenario that has come-up several times in the last 10-20 years. Is that still an issue?
Barry_Green
Moderator
It's common practice to not read unsolicited material. If you're not a member of the WGA and you don't have an agent, they won't look at your material.
(WGA membership is, again, another "weeding out" mechanism... in order to get into the WGA, other people must hire you so you get "credits", and with enough credits and a $2500 check, you can get into the WGA. So by default, WGA members have jumped through several hoops, faced some tests and passed. That qualifies them, in scriptbuyers' minds, that they didn't just fall off the turnip truck and think that they're a screenwriter, they've at least sold some work before.)
But if they find you through a contest or something like that, they will definitely make a deal with you. If they request your script, they will usually require you to sign a frightful release form (saying, basically, that not only do you recognize that they may be working on material substantially similar to yours, but they may in fact already be developing substantially IDENTICAL material to yours). That's designed to protect them from the you-stole-my-idea claim.
But if your script is good enough to steal, they won't steal it. You gotta understand -- if it's that good, other people will want it too. Interest someone else, and now all of a sudden you have a bidding war going on. And if legal issues arise, and the script is really that good, one company will front the lawyers to battle the other company, etc.
The best defense you have against getting your script stolen is to a) write an abso-freakin'-lutely brilliant script, and b) document everyone who you send a copy to, and c) get it out there. Once it gets in "the system", nobody'll steal it, because other companies will be buying it. And you don't want to be the Lions Gate who stole the script that Warner Brothers paid good money for, y'know?
And if a company makes an offer to buy a script, that's a guaranteed way to get an agent, so you really don't have to worry about it. If someone makes an offer to buy your script, you take that offer to an agent and say "want a quick & easy commission? Sign up to rep me and you can broker this deal", and bingo, you have an agent, and the question becomes moot.
(WGA membership is, again, another "weeding out" mechanism... in order to get into the WGA, other people must hire you so you get "credits", and with enough credits and a $2500 check, you can get into the WGA. So by default, WGA members have jumped through several hoops, faced some tests and passed. That qualifies them, in scriptbuyers' minds, that they didn't just fall off the turnip truck and think that they're a screenwriter, they've at least sold some work before.)
But if they find you through a contest or something like that, they will definitely make a deal with you. If they request your script, they will usually require you to sign a frightful release form (saying, basically, that not only do you recognize that they may be working on material substantially similar to yours, but they may in fact already be developing substantially IDENTICAL material to yours). That's designed to protect them from the you-stole-my-idea claim.
But if your script is good enough to steal, they won't steal it. You gotta understand -- if it's that good, other people will want it too. Interest someone else, and now all of a sudden you have a bidding war going on. And if legal issues arise, and the script is really that good, one company will front the lawyers to battle the other company, etc.
The best defense you have against getting your script stolen is to a) write an abso-freakin'-lutely brilliant script, and b) document everyone who you send a copy to, and c) get it out there. Once it gets in "the system", nobody'll steal it, because other companies will be buying it. And you don't want to be the Lions Gate who stole the script that Warner Brothers paid good money for, y'know?
And if a company makes an offer to buy a script, that's a guaranteed way to get an agent, so you really don't have to worry about it. If someone makes an offer to buy your script, you take that offer to an agent and say "want a quick & easy commission? Sign up to rep me and you can broker this deal", and bingo, you have an agent, and the question becomes moot.
Capt Quirk
Veteran
Time to dig up the dead... dead thread that is 
Say you have a script written, and somebody is interested in it for a low budget. What are the going rates for a short or a feature length?
Say you have a script written, and somebody is interested in it for a low budget. What are the going rates for a short or a feature length?
TimCollins
Well-known member
Haha, Microsoft Word. Rock on!
In all sincerity, I am in need of a writing program as well.
In all sincerity, I am in need of a writing program as well.
wcmartell
Well-known member
There isn't a going rate. Everything depends on the budget. So, if you are dealing with some film student with a camera, you are probably going to get zilch. But there are even low budget companies with office buildings and everything like Asylum that make movies for $100k that are in every Blockbuster in the USA (until Fox wins their lawsuit, at least) - and they probably pay $2k for a script. All the way up to some company that makes films on a reasonable budget that might pay you close to WGA min ($50k) or maybe even more. 2%-3% of the budget is fair.
And - to the old thread - studio based producers regularly request and read scripts from unagented writers... they even send people to pitchfests looking for material. I have no agent, no manager... and have had hundreds of meetings with studio based producers. What you need is a script with a great idea (so they will request ot from your pitch or query) that delivers on that great idea (so they will want to meet with you after reading the script). So - what Barry said... but the doors are open a little more.
- Bill
And - to the old thread - studio based producers regularly request and read scripts from unagented writers... they even send people to pitchfests looking for material. I have no agent, no manager... and have had hundreds of meetings with studio based producers. What you need is a script with a great idea (so they will request ot from your pitch or query) that delivers on that great idea (so they will want to meet with you after reading the script). So - what Barry said... but the doors are open a little more.
- Bill
Capt Quirk
Veteran
Thanks Bill, that gives me a frame of reference.