screenplay vs fiction writing

rc444

Well-known member
Something I've alway wondered about is how come there seems to be more "how-to" books on screenwriting than there are on how to write novels?

I've always found that with scriptwriting, I'm always at some stage making sure my script conforms to the right conventions (3 act structure, turning points etc etc), all the stuff Syd Field talks about, and like me, I'm sure anything who has written a script, has heard of at least 10 books on screenwriting. Scriptwriting craft theory is just ingrained in you, sort of thing. There is no escape thinking about it. Ironically, the first thing I learned about scriptwriting was Courier 12.

When I wrote several short stories and fiction in high school, there were no guidelines for what you had to do, you just wrote pretty much. At no stage when I was writing short stories did I ask myself or was told by my teacher "we need an inciting incident here, and more conflict by the 1st turning point." As far as fiction writing was concerned, all I was taught was to have a beginning, middle and end, and to write from experience if possible. That was the only criteria we were judged on for fiction.

Whereas there seems to be more rules for scriptwriters. I am sure there are plenty of "how-to" books on novels, but even so "novel craft" or how to write a good novel, has never really reached the same level of consciousness as scriptwriting books. It seems that more people would know about writing if they were a scriptwriter than a novelist, because there's so much more support out there with McKee and Syd Field etc, than there if you wanted to write a novel. If I was to write a novel, it would be a rambling, garbled mess because I don't know any of the craft rules that would apply to novels, as I've never been made aware of what they are.

I'm not a novelist, but if anyone writes novels, what craft rules do you guys have? How are they different from say screenwriters?

rc444
 
Something I've alway wondered about is how come there seems to be more "how-to" books on screenwriting than there are on how to write novels?

I
rc444

It's just as you say, screenwriting has a bunch of rules that everyone is afraid to break. Heaven forbid if you didn't submit a script in New Courier.
 
But there aren't more books on screenwriting.

There are tons of books on writing style/tone for short stories and novels. There are tons of magazines and journals that specialize in short stories and novels.

They're just in a different section of the book store than the screenwriting books.
 
I find it amazing that people still buy the books when they could just buy Final Draft.

Final draft is a scam. They don't support it after just a few years. So you buy a new computer? Guess what, you need to new Final Draft. Move Magic? Ditto....
 
huh?

huh?

Why would you need support for it after a few years? Should you know it by then... Plus, most software with the exception of a few DAWs make you purchase something if you cross-platform... Others get their money in other ways and almost all stop supporting older versions after certain periods of time, right?
 
Why would you need support for it after a few years? Should you know it by then... Plus, most software with the exception of a few DAWs make you purchase something if you cross-platform... Others get their money in other ways and almost all stop supporting older versions after certain periods of time, right?

They won't give you the activation codes if you get a new computer or have to reformat. Even if the OS is the same. They tell you, "Nope, buy version XXXX".

So effectively they're renting you their software and once the "Lease" runs out, you have to BUY another lease. The way I think, if I buy a software for 200 bucks, I should be able to use it as long as I want.

Not even an activation code...amazing.
 
Yeah, brianluce is pretty much a broken record when it comes for FD and MM. It's obvious he's had a bad experience with them. On the other hand, I've had good experiences with them.

On the subject of this thread, I personally prefer the screenplay to the novel. It forces you to be more focused. You have a specific amount of "time" to tell your story. With a novel, you have time to really explore the world you're creating and sometimes you can get lost in it (which isn't necessarily bad). Stephen King once said that writing a book was like excavating a mountain, you just start digging and see what it reveals. Since my outlining for novel writing is scant, I find it really necessary to make detailed notes while I'm writing so I can later go back and not find continuity errors. My scripts are well outlined sot I can get from Point A to Point B and stay on message.
 
They won't give you the activation codes if you get a new computer or have to reformat. Even if the OS is the same. They tell you, "Nope, buy version XXXX".

So effectively they're renting you their software and once the "Lease" runs out, you have to BUY another lease. The way I think, if I buy a software for 200 bucks, I should be able to use it as long as I want.

Not even an activation code...amazing.
You're better off getting www.celtx.com That's the best screenwriting software and it's free. I can't see any difference between that and Final Draft. The other one is Sophocles, which I think is $80.
 
I had final draft on my window's laptop with windows XP....then bought a max osx and final draft workes on that. and I've even let 2 of my friends, each with different computers (one=a del something...and another w/vista) and both had no problems with final draft.
...yes I do work for final draft.

(ha, no. that was a joke. but I've had no problems with it)
 
Well, it's screenwriting for me. It's much harder and thus provides more of a challenge. You have less space for the implied author and narrative persona to speak because it's a show not tell medium. In fiction writing, I have been able to have entire pages to create worlds in vivid detail, but in screenwriting one carefully crafted sentence can do the same. It is infinitely more difficult, more daunting, to craft that sentence than to write the pages... at least to me
 
Back on topic - a wonderful book on writing fiction is 'On Writing' by Stephen King

Its part autobiography, and part instructional - but it's a great and quick read.
Highly recommended.

Absolutely, read it in one evening non-stop... it pushed me to write my first novel.

There are also a few books in a series called Elements of Fiction Writing that are really good, like Characters and Viewpoint by Orson Scott Card (love the Tales of Alvin Maker, Ender's Game, and all of the Bean novels) and Beginnings, Middles, and Ends by Nancy Kress. They are a great resource.

Also, it is important to note that scene and structure is different in novels. There is more intellectual real estate, that allow for a different type of stylistic creativity... I mean James Joyce's Ulysses could never be filmed without a massive, massive rewrite.
 
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There are also a few books in a series called Elements of Fiction Writing that are really good, like Characters and Viewpoint by Orson Scott Card...


Oddly enough, "Characters and Viewpoint" is actually sitting on my shelf right next to "On Writing." I got it a while back after it was recommended by another member here. Good call - I should have remembered that one in my post.
:thumbsup:
 
One of the biggest differences between writing a novel and writing a screenplay is this -- with a screenplay, it's much harder to reveal to an audience what a character is thinking. In a novel, you just write his thoughts -- either as description ("Darren wondered where Carla could be") or as dialogue ("'Where the heck is Carla?', Darren wondered.")

When I'm critiquing other peoples' scripts, I'm forever having to say, "And how is the audience supposed to KNOW that??"
 
I'm not on board with this idea that a screenplay is "Harder" to write than a novel. You can say screenplays can't reveal internal states easily. Okay, fine. You can say that makes it harder or you can say that lets the screenwriter off the hook--a screenwriter doesn't have to do it-- it's not easy writing an internal state with fluency.

In other words anyone can write a crummy screenplay or novel. But to write something good, be it a screenstory, novel, Haiku or whatever is not easy.
 
Charlie Kaufman writes some complex screenplays. They are poetic, literary, complex, but very direct and clear all at once. David Mamet, also. Both of them write and structure to perfection

point is, at it's best, there is nothing easy, or easier, about script writing
 
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