SCARLET / EPIC swiss army knife camera details announced

If people heard what Red said and assumed they'd get a 3k camera for $3k ready to shoot out of the box, well, they were just being incredibly optimistic IMO.
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I heard what Red said. They said that for $3k, what you pull out of the box was shootable. A shootable configuration for "under" $3,000.

They also said that everything (prices, dates, specifications, capabilities, EVERYTHING) is subject to change.
 
Barry_Green said:
I heard what Red said. They said that for $3k, what you pull out of the box was shootable. A shootable configuration for "under" $3,000.

They also said that everything (prices, dates, specifications, capabilities, EVERYTHING) is subject to change.
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Not sure if this has been posted already, but in an interview with Ted Schilowitz from RED, the following was said:

At NAB the 3K resolution for $3K stuck with a lot of people, are we still in that zone?
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I think we are still in that zone, it is just a little hard to predict, The lens itself is very complex, we are not cutting corners on that fixed lens Scarlet. It is going to right, it is going to be at the right price and it is going to be hyper competitive, other cameras in that zone 2/3" sensors are normally $30,000 . It is a little early, but have a little faith, we have people's best interest at heart and it won't be too far off the $2500 version.
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full thing here:

http://www.fxguide.com/article507.html


So read from this what you will...
 
Marketing hype is a two way street. RED is gaining tremendous free advertising and buzz with their wild claims. They have spawned a legion of fanboys who are marching in locked step with how great RED is and are even calling Jim a "creative god" and are willing to camp out on the lawn of RED (figuratively) to await the release of these new cameras. That's all well and good, a very impressive display of marketing and promotional brinksmanship.

If you throw out numbers, specs and ideas, of course the public is going to latch on to them, it's marketing 101. Anyone who has retail experience knows that people will bite onto the lowest price that the seller ever throws out and will not let go, short of death. I ran a twenty five million dollar a year sales operation in the 1980s and dealt with the public and selling electronics and encountered this situation on a daily basis. Lawsuits were threatened and harsh words and threats were often brandished with unbridled enthusiasm in disputes over low price claims and advertisiments. This was one of the main reasons for me exiting the business, it felt as slimy as the car business. This is known in retail as bait and switch, not saying that RED is illegally engaging in this practice, they are not because they are covering themselves with oft repeated disclaimers but I am beginning to wonder if the intent is somewhat the same? What possible reason can it serve to put out a price point of any kind, if in the same breath you are telling your customers that you reserve the right to change it at any time? All that will do is piss off your customer base. Personally I feel that putting out specs, designs, everything else is fine, then it's just a game but once you start throwing out prices and changing them mid-stream, you are going to alienate a lot of your customers, regardless of disclaimers.

Since the price on the fixed lens Scarlet is TBD, all of this is kind of pointless speculation at this point anyway. I don't think many expected a fully loaded, ready to shoot camera for under $3,000.00 but Barry and some others have remarked that they were under the impression that that was part of the hype that was put out at NAB. Perhaps the fixed lens brain and lens will be under $3,000.00 at least, still requiring a storage, audio and battery module? TIme will tell.

RED is getting the benefit of tremendous buzz but if they keep up with constantly changing specs, prices and delivery dates, at some point people will stop taking the company and their product line seriously. I can't think of many other businesses that have been successful with these sorts of "constantly moving target on everything connected with the product" tactics outside of our business.

Dan
 
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I totally see where you're coming from Dan, but I also see a bit of a different side with RED: First, at NAB last year, I honestly believe that the plan actually was 3K for 3K, it was feasible at the time, and as said by many of the team, out of the box ready.

That being said, Ikonoscope, Nikon and Canon dropped the bomb before RED could make due with their statement. After the releases from others, the people all but demanded more than the original scarlet was intended for, and RED listened and obliged, but there's a price to pay... a higher price. In a sense, they (RED) made the claim for Scarlet TOO early and didn't foresee the market change on the horizon. They could have stuck with original Scarlet plans and price, but by the time it hit the market, other manufacturers would have closed the gap in progress. It's a vicious cycle they're running in, and I sincerely hope they do come through with my dream camera, but I'm ready for an upgrade now, and I have a feeling Nikon will come through with something to suit me before Scarlet hits the shelves. I mean, what happens in 6 months when Nikon, Canon, and Joe Schmo camcorders come out with new "blow your mind" camcorders? Is RED going to scrap it all again?

EDIT FOR REASONABILITY: And by the way, a great start for my "dream machine" doesn't need to shoot at 5k. I require three basic things: HD (preferably 2k), interchangeable lenses, the large (DSLR size?) sensor, and a decent price (sub 5k?). Forgive me if I'm wrong, but I think THAT is the camera that the people, or at least the masses of wannabe's like myself, are waiting for.
 
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If I am reading that chart right, what happened to the selectable framerates of the RED ONE. More importantly, where did 24FPS go?
 
Barry_Green said:
I heard what Red said. They said that for $3k, what you pull out of the box was shootable. A shootable configuration for "under" $3,000.
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I guess it was Red who was overly optimistic. :laugh:

puredrifting said:
Marketing hype is a two way street. RED is gaining tremendous free advertising and buzz with their wild claims. They have spawned a legion of fanboys who are marching in locked step with how great RED is and are even calling Jim a "creative god" and are willing to camp out on the lawn of RED (figuratively) to await the release of these new cameras. That's all well and good, a very impressive display of marketing and promotional brinksmanship.
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I was just trying to say I'm surprised more people didn't have a wait and see attitude considering the RED company motto should be, "Everything will change." When I first heard about Scarlet I tried to learn more about it but when I quickly discovered there was no concrete info on it I was like, "Sounds nifty but I'll check back when it's shipping."


-A
 
ryan brown said:
I require three basic things: HD (preferably 2k), interchangeable lenses, the large (s35) sensor, and a decent price. Forgive me if I'm wrong, but I think THAT is the camera that the people are waiting for.
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that's my dream machine, too. i'll add 24fps and manual controls over aperture, shutter speed and ISO.
 
Even if it only shot 24p and 25P. a Canon/nikon mount camera with a S35 sized sensor would be a at any price under 10k.
 
A big announcement that there will be a big announcement, which is highly anticipated, and ends up showing some cool looking computer generated images and specs that are subject to drastic change and are a year down the road, which may also change, is a tactic that may lead to credibility issues, especially if there are drastic changes to the specs by the time the product hits the streets. It's cool to be so open as a company, but not so open as to dreaming out loud and way into the future.

Since the announcement was so hyped and anticipated (hey, I stayed up really late, or was it really really early? ha!), I was expecting the product lines to be further along in development, as in working prototypes subject to minor tweaking. I have no doubt RED can eventually do it, but I won't be staying up beyond midnight next time in anticipation of an announcement of something subject to drastic changes and is a year away. Something a little more tangible would be nice. But hey, I gotta love Jim and his vision. It must be nice to be a dreamer and have moolah.
 
actually, i'd even go 720p if there were no compression artifacts. the casio f1 is actually pretty impressive in terms of image. at $999, too. in a year... wow. good times. good times.
 
ryan brown said:
I require three basic things: HD (preferably 2k), interchangeable lenses, the large (s35) sensor, and a decent price (sub 4k?). Forgive me if I'm wrong, but I think THAT is the camera that the people, or at least the masses of wannabe's like myself, are waiting for.
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To be honest, I am surprised about the lack of talk and mention of the 28k camera.... hello? Is this thing on? Am I the only one who has seen this?

28k is ridiculous. I bet RED will not produce this camera or will bankrupt in pursuit of building the model. It's just not needed. Just a waste of RD, time and money.

I don't think 28k is ever going to be desired in the near or distant future... There is going to be a time when technology out performs what people really want or need. Screens are getting smaller, theater attendance is down, and home theaters are not going to be bigger then a large screen TV... so viewing 28k is just not going to happen on any release format or viewing apparatus. Not until I'm well dead of old age, and I'm 22 years old. There is a reason that 60mm or 70mm. Film is possible but very few shoot on it. Also, film technology could have advanced further, but audiences are content with its resolution. Nobody every left a film theater wishing for more resolution. We will soon see Digital video hit that glass ceiling, where we become content with resolution, and start focusing on other aspects of the cameras performance. :huh:
 
Ryan Patrick O'Hara said:
To be honest, I am surprised about the lack of talk and mention of the 28k camera.... hello? Is this thing on? Am I the only one who has seen this?

28k is ridiculous. I bet RED will not produce this camera or will bankrupt in pursuit of building the model. It's just not needed. Just a waste of RD, time and money.
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That's probably why there isn't much talk of it.
I mean - they announced a huge slate of products... all to be released theoretically in the next two years or so.... and the 28K one is last on the list (winter 2010 I think it said).

Not much to say about it really.
 
Luis Caffesse said:
That's probably why there isn't much talk of it.
I mean - they announced a huge slate of products... all to be released theoretically in the next two years or so.... and the 28K one is last on the list (winter 2010 I think it said).

Not much to say about it really.
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I almost upchucked wondering how many computers it would take to watch / edit the 28k footage.

Jim made his point, he never has lied to me or anyone I know but WTF? Love it!

What a great comapny!

I'm a black sheep so of couse the 3D scarlet setup has my attention.

Can two 28k camera's be used for 3D?
 
28K will replace the Imax format. Horizontally running 70mm.

They seem to shoot alot of it these days.... Its a specialty product yes, but then again, so is a RED camera. They built IMAX format cameras to begin with... how many of them could there be? This is just the Digital Version.
 
I noticed the reference to the Linhof mount. Linhof's claim to fame is the oldest maker of view cameras. If your going to make a digital back for a large format camera you'd need one whopper of a sensor. Whether Red continues with other elements to make a motion camera as well from that sensor with over double the resolution of an Imax isn't necessarily far fetched. Camera companies just like car companies always have made a few exotic items that are for a select few. Jim probably wants a few just for himself. Who cares? When you're a multi-billionaire and a photo buff you can do whatever the hell you want.

Howard Hughes made the spruce goose and flew it just once. He didn't exactly go broke.

Fan boys and naysayers are just opposite sides of the same idiot coin. If people spent as much time and energy actually making movies as they do either fawning over or spitting venom at Red's visions they'd be much better off.

I'm just glad I'm a "I'll see for myself and make up my own mind" person. If I lived in the states I'd be from Missouri! I bought a Red One package and sure enough, it worked fine and all the stories, were just that, stories passed around like gossip over the fence on wash day.
 
indigo said:
So when your RED 'whatever' breaks down on location in say Thailand RED are going to do what?

Nikon have and infrastructure that works!

Indy....
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Haha, that's good reasoning if I ever heard it. *sarcasm*

Pick up a phone and order a replacement from RED to get you through the shoot. lol.

Plus Thailand is PAL, so you're screwed buying locally. (Although it's Westernly neighbor is the only NTSC country in South East Oceanic Asia.)
 
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