Save the Cat rant

Farnsworth

Farnsworth

Active member
I can't tell you how many times Blake Snyder's screenwriting book, "Save the Cat", has come up for me lately. It's been reviewed (positively) in a bunch of screenwriting blogs, and mentioned to me by a bunch of producers and writers. And recently a producer friend actually handed me a copy and told me I *had* to read it. So I did.

The book made me angry.

Now don't get me wrong, I like Blake Snyder. If you read his blog, you'll see that he's a relentlessly positive and encouraging guy. In a cynical world, that's nice to see.

But his book is all about how to write a script that is sellable, and has absolutely nothing to do with writing a script that is *good*. This has me all torn up inside, because on the one hand if you want to make a living as a screenwriter in Hollywood, yeah, it'll probably help you. What's wrong with that, really? But on the other hand, it's going to encourage the creation of an awful lot of really terrible movies right at a time when Hollywood almost seems to be realizing the importance of good writing in its blockbusters for a change.

Take this, for example. A short list of movies Snyder uses as examples of how to do things right: Miss Congeniality, Blank Check, Stop or my Mom Will Shoot. Good lord, is this the kind of movie we want more of? Does anybody even *remember* Blank Check? Wasn't that kid from Family Ties in it?

And the movie he bashes most strongly for doing things wrong: Memento. His argument being that it didn't make any money in its theatrical run. How does one even attempt to respond to that?!

So essentially I came here to rant, and to see if I have any like-minded thinkers in this forum. I don't post here much, but it seemed like a good place to find some people who care about making *good* films. I was going to post in Snyder's own forum, but that just made me feel like a troll.
 
Blake wrote Blank Check and he has written others, i.e., Nuclear Family, a story he sold to to Speilberg for a cool million, -- it has yet to be produced. He likes funny kid type movies, that's his thing, so to him these are good movies, it's his genre. It sounds like Memento is your type of genre movie.

For me STC was a decent basic book on writing because it covers structural basics that most successful movies have in them, and these are the things many writers get wrong. When these structures are missing or in the wrong place the audience says, WHAT? they expect certain tell-tale signs throughout the story. We have been conditioned to them over eons. I've attend Blake seminars and they're fun & informative. I use some of his suggestions and suggestions from others, and a whole bunch of things I've discovered for myself. In the end you're the author.

How do you respond: Do what ever you want and live with the consequences.
 
Hi from Blake Snyder!

Hi from Blake Snyder!

My nose was itching and I realized someone was talking about me -- you guys! I'm so glad you are. I don't wish to intrude but wanted to comment, and hopefully clear up some misconceptions about Save the Cat! As the author, I get a lot of feedback and it's 99% positive. It's primarily because I am a working screenwriter and what I talk about is what applies right now in the mainstream film market. I wrote STC! because of my years as a struggling screenwriter, not getting what was being asked of me, and suspicious of anything "sell-y." I had 20 unsold scripts in a drawer until I asked a simple question: Do I want to succeed? And am I willing to change my approach to do so? I only wish someone had told me some of things I discuss in the book, it would have saved time and trees. But the idea that I am against "good" movies is not true. Silly in fact. It's one reason I wrote the sequel, Save the Cat! Goes to the Movies, in which I discuss both big studio hits and Indies -- all follow my structure. The reason I use simple movies as examples is because it's easier to "see the seams" but what is baldly delivered in a so-called commerical film, and more artfully rendered in a so-called art house film -- is the same! If you can get those basics down -- the world is your pearl-generating shell device! I still sell scripts, and have been lucky to sell many in a 20 year career, but meeting other writers and helping them as a result of writing this book has been the most meaningful phase of my career! It is my mission to be of service to others, and one reason why I put my email address in my book (bsnyder264@aol.com) and am so quick to respond to any writer with a question -- even outraged Memento fans!! Thank you for discussing my book, I'm honored to be included! You're all really smart! With impressive resumes -- and arguments! Continued success to all!
 
Blake Snyder said:
My nose was itching and I realized someone was talking about me -- you guys! I'm so glad you are. I don't wish to intrude but wanted to comment, and hopefully clear up some misconceptions about Save the Cat! As the author, I get a lot of feedback and it's 99% positive. It's primarily because I am a working screenwriter and what I talk about is what applies right now in the mainstream film market. I wrote STC! because of my years as a struggling screenwriter, not getting what was being asked of me, and suspicious of anything "sell-y." I had 20 unsold scripts in a drawer until I asked a simple question: Do I want to succeed? And am I willing to change my approach to do so? I only wish someone had told me some of things I discuss in the book, it would have saved time and trees. But the idea that I am against "good" movies is not true. Silly in fact. It's one reason I wrote the sequel, Save the Cat! Goes to the Movies, in which I discuss both big studio hits and Indies -- all follow my structure. The reason I use simple movies as examples is because it's easier to "see the seams" but what is baldly delivered in a so-called commerical film, and more artfully rendered in a so-called art house film -- is the same! If you can get those basics down -- the world is your pearl-generating shell device! I still sell scripts, and have been lucky to sell many in a 20 year career, but meeting other writers and helping them as a result of writing this book has been the most meaningful phase of my career! It is my mission to be of service to others, and one reason why I put my email address in my book (bsnyder264@aol.com) and am so quick to respond to any writer with a question -- even outraged Memento fans!! Thank you for discussing my book, I'm honored to be included! You're all really smart! With impressive resumes -- and arguments! Continued success to all!
Click to expand...

Blake thanks very much for chiming in here on User! Great to have you.
:beer:
 
HerzogisGod said:
"Story", by Robert McKee.

the only book on screen writing you will ever need. PERIOD!!!!!
Click to expand...

"Story" is a great, essential book - agreed. But I'd also rave equally about "Inside Story" by Dara Marks. If I had to recommend only one, it might well be hers.

I also enjoyed "Save The Cat" by the way, and thanks, Blake, for popping in here with your comments. Some really good insights there.
 
Blake - thanks for chiming in! Always great to have people with "cred" contributing. As you'll see, doesn't mean you'll necessarily be agreed with, but respected nonetheless.

I'd personally love to hear any comments you'd care to share on the marketing end - getting your script above the noise floor - also.

Thanks again!
 
Hi Blake,

I don't want to come across as trashing you. I'm a regular reader of your blog and have been since long before I read the book. And as I said I'm a great admirer of your positive, encouraging attitude towards writers starting out. The whole reason I posted here first was to gather my thoughts and maybe balance out my reaction a little before I went near your own forum. Now that you're here I feel like a troll. :)

I'm aware of the classic structural model upon which your model is based. And I have no problem at all with writers learning the foundations of screenplay structure. Very important stuff, and I don't think you make any claim to being the first to expound it. What I find missing is any mention of the need for personal expression, or unique voice, or originality. (No, I don't think "the same but different" equates to originality.) Robert McKee, while he does go on at length about structure and craft, also heavily emphasizes the need to find your own voice, and from the looks of it so does Dara Marks, although I haven't read her book. Without this, in my view, what you're left with is a madlibs approach to screenwriting that churns out a lot of really forgettable films without a hint of real soul, "Miss Congeniality" being a perfect example. Perhaps I'm too idealistic if I want to keep hoping that writing is an art form as well as a business.

I also take some issue with the claim that *every* good story fits this model. I',m sure many do. But watching people try to fit every single good movie into the template is painful. As John Rogers puts it in his blog, it's akin to "No, these pants fit fine if I hold my breath!" The structure is a foundation but it doesn't serve *every* story, and sometimes trying to shoehorn a story into it weakens the story rather than strengthening it.

Again, Blake, nothing but respect for you and your success. I just can't get on board with the book. :)
 
If your into structure and looking to create a meaningful story get a copy of A Hero with a Thousand face - by Joseph Campbell. Hard read, but very good info.

All the best,
 
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