Samyang V-AF lenses: matched weight and color, optimized for both manual/AF

ahalpert

ahalpert

Major Contributor
https://www.samyanglens.com/en/m/product/v-af.php

Very fascinating product launch. it's a series of T1.9 primes for E mount (and possibly other mounts?) Supposedly optimized for manual focus as well as AF, with built-in follow focus gears

The lenses share the same form factor, weight and center of gravity (!!!)

Supposedly color-matched and capable of resolving 8K

The lenses have 2 tally lights on their bodies

They also feature an electronic contact on the front for powering bespoke accessories. There's no word of what those accessories will be. an eND front filter? An electronic follow focus?

No word on price either. But major points for innovation, IMO

I think they could have something interesting here. Their recent f/1.8 AF lenses have very good autofocus and seem totally passable wide open
 
pretty great product, for sure!

Samyang has been doing better lenses than anyone one of us might want to admit. the Rokinon’s both DX and XEEN are still lenses i would use in a heart beat
 
Samyangs have been better color matched than any of my vintage stuff, and better than most stills lenses.

And perform better wide open than they should for the price.

The only thing, is that they aren’t a look that people are seeking out typically. Even if they compare to many of the cinema lenses from DZO to Ultra Prime, they just aren’t a look that people remember or want to go back to.

What would be amazing, is if all of the lenses have a similar look wide open too. always weird to have one that performs really poorly and one really good, and you just can’t use them as easily interchangeably on set. That said, if one outperforms the rest, it would be difficult to reject a good lens at these prices. at f2.8-F4 they should be similar to anything else available. fingers crossed
 
The way they use V-AF in the announcment


“That’s so V-AF!”

”Stop trying to make VAF happen!”
 
The front accesories electonic pins and bayonet(?) type locking mount look interesting.

I’m assuming this means an electronically (and therefore remotely) controlled V-ND is possible

And given it is almost an inverted PL mount, and not those fine threads, swapping out V-ND in the field seems less an issue. Now they just need to make dummy front attachments so that there is no weight or counterbalance issues when swapping out a front attachment. Would be nice to be able to take off the V-ND then slap on an empty ring with the same weight distribution, and get back up and running within 10seconds, foregoing a mattebox.
 
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No manual aperture ring, so aside from the label "Cine" I'm not sure what makes these cine lenses. A cine lens with AF is a great idea, but these need the option of manual iris control.
 
hmm I wonder if you can switch the focus ring to aperture control as you can on canon lenses. of course, then you'd lose manual focus. they should have gone the sony gm route of clicking but declickable manual aperture control ring that can also be controlled by the camera. that being said, I stopped using the manual aperture ring on my GM's so I'd hardly ever miss it on these
 
JimGao said:
The only thing, is that they aren’t a look that people are seeking out typically. Even if they compare to many of the cinema lenses from DZO to Ultra Prime, they just aren’t a look that people remember or want to go back to.
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I don't think this is really true. They have a warm, glossy look. And usually a nice amount of distortion.

Where they fall apart is in terms of chromatic aberration and detail wide open.

That was the main reason I stopped using Samyangs and have gravitated over to Sony GM's. The GMs are just more reliable and a better one size fits all.

The Samyangs also have far inferior flare resistance. But again, that can be really nice. And in this regard, the GMs can be boring. But it also means that occasionally you won't get a usable shot out of the Samyangs.

I have a 24/35/50/135 GM and I'm still using a Samyang 85 while i wait for the GM 85 1.2. And the samyang 85 is sooooo much nicer for CU portraits than the 135 GM. The 135 GM is just way too ****ing sharp. I was looking forward to using it for chokers, and that's basically out. I'm hoping that the 85 GM will be more forgiving.

There's a video from IBC posted at the Samyang booth. It confirms that the VAF's are based on Samyang's "tiny" f/1.8 stills line. Which is fine, they're nice little lenses with good autofocus.

The 75 is already out for 629 euros. Video linked in next post

The interviewer neglected to ask about the upcoming electronic front attachment accessories. Which is really V IMO. Just VAF
 
ahalpert said:
The 135 GM is just way too ****ing sharp. I was looking forward to using it for chokers, and that's basically out. I'm hoping that the 85 GM will be more forgiving.
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Have you tried it with filtration like 1/8 pro mist or something?
 
ahalpert said:
I don't think this is really true. They have a warm, glossy look. And usually a nice amount of distortion.
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I hate to split hairs, but i find the tint on them every so slightly too much. Juuuust ever so slightly. But I’m talking about the DS line. And then wide open can be ok, but it is a bit less character than a vintage, and not as sharp as a GM, so it might be the goldie locks for a few people, but it doesn’t really grab attention, is all i meant. The nice thing about the rose tint is how it makes a group of cheap lenses feel like a matching set. You go with old Nikkors and might have a variety of subtle shifts, or go Lomo and have bigger shifts.


ahalpert said:
Where they fall apart is in terms of chromatic aberration and detail wide open.
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Yeah, you’re right about that. I will say, surprisingly usable for such a cheap fast lens.

At the end of the day, they are possibly the cheapest cinema lenses, while not being the worst. In the right hands they can do the work. But if i were buying and had to choose between XEEN, CP.2, DZO, and Canon CN-e Primes, i might end up with the old CP.2’s. at the used prices they are now, they are underrated. on s35 they have a nice neutral look, and on FF35/VV/LF they can become slightly charactered.

ahalpert said:
That was the main reason I stopped using Samyangs and have gravitated over to Sony GM's. The GMs are just more reliable and a better one size fits all.
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Sony lenses are getting well received. I’ve never used them, other than zome earlier Zeiss/Sony Collabs and the Sony PL s35 lenses (mkii’s are insanely good for the price used)

If you had to describe the GM’s in nore depth, what would be your more nuanced descriptions?

ahalpert said:
The Samyangs also have far inferior flare resistance. But again, that can be really nice. And in this regard, the GMs can be boring. But it also means that occasionally you won't get a usable shot out of the Samyangs.
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Ah, this is almost making me want to revisit them. haha. i’ll have to take back everything i said before.

ahalpert said:
I have a 24/35/50/135 GM and I'm still using a Samyang 85 while i wait for the GM 85 1.2. And the samyang 85 is sooooo much nicer for CU portraits than the 135 GM. The 135 GM is just way too ****ing sharp. I was looking forward to using it for chokers, and that's basically out. I'm hoping that the 85 GM will be more forgiving.
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Is it the contrast of the lens in combo with you picture style? I don’t feel a lens can be too sharp, contrasty, yes, but rarely too sharp. Sometimes a long lens with smash a face, ECU at 4K reveals a ton of skin detail, and if the lighting isn’t just so can be quite the reveal! haha. I worked with a director friend once and we had a discussion about lens choice, and we decided that we would never reach for a telephoto for close ups by default. The idea being that we wanted to think of telephoto as a lens for creative fov or practical reach. As in many cases, a 50mm can actually focus closer than an 85mm, so on that shoot we just didn’t mention tight or close up in relation to telephoto.

ahalpert said:
There's a video from IBC posted at the Samyang booth. It confirms that the VAF's are based on Samyang's "tiny" f/1.8 stills line. Which is fine, they're nice little lenses with good autofocus.

The 75 is already out for 629 euros. Video linked in next post

The interviewer neglected to ask about the upcoming electronic front attachment accessories. Which is really V IMO. Just VAF
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Thanks for sharing that!

We have quite a few interesting smaller lens options again. I’ve trued to use those Canon CN-e Primes on gimbals and they require risers, so despite preferring bigger lenses, the practicality of smaller is just a reality of what we end up needing.
 
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Andy9 said:
Have you tried it with filtration like 1/8 pro mist or something?
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I tried it with 1/4 and 1/2 tiffen black Satin, which is a diffusion I like a lot. It's maybe the only diffusion I've tried that I feel mixes seamlessly with non-diffused shots. I didn't think it was quite enough (it's very subtle) and I was thinking of trying it with a 1 (I think the highest strength is a 3) but I considered the filter factor and it cuts a lot of light, like close to 2 stops I think. So for now I'm content just to use it unfiltered on medium shots/MCUs or wider and get the benefit of a shallower DOF at that frame size than with my 70-180 f/2.8

But the bokeh and the rendering is really nice. And the perspective is very flattering. Autofocus is top notch

i think you're in a better position to work with a softer lens for starters if you want softer portraits. I dunno
 
JimGao said:
If you had to describe the GM’s in nore depth, what would be your more nuanced descriptions?

Is it the contrast of the lens in combo with you picture style? I don’t feel a lens can be too sharp, contrasty, yes, but rarely too sharp. Sometimes a long lens with smash a face, ECU at 4K reveals a ton of skin detail, and if the lighting isn’t just so can be quite the reveal! haha. I worked with a director friend once and we had a discussion about lens choice, and we decided that we would never reach for a telephoto for close ups by default. The idea being that we wanted to think of telephoto as a lens for creative fov or practical reach. As in many cases, a 50mm can actually focus closer than an 85mm, so on that shoot we just didn’t mention tight or close up in relation to telephoto.
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I forgot to mention autofocus performance. The samyangs aren't bad (I've only used the 35 and 85 1.4, whereas their 1.8's probably do better). But nothing beats the recent GM releases in this department. So it's not entirely about the look of the GM, although that's partly it.

The GM's have really nice bokeh IMO. And maybe a smoother transition from in to out of focus than sigma art line? Not sure. The rendering is really nice - the draw or whatever you call it. There's a lot of 3D pop for the subject in focus.

The 50 1.2 has a nice swirly thing around the edges of the frame, although I don't get to see it as much when I'm shooting 120fps on account of the 1.1x crop

The 24 has a bit of pincushion distortion in the middle which is a bonus if you end up shooting someone at close range. Its a bit slimming and flattering that way. And i think the edges of frame are low distortion

The 35 focuses pretty close, though I think on par with other available 35's

The 135 is super super sharp

I can't remember what their flares look like. I don’t think they're pronounced.

I don't think of these lenses as having a lot of character. Except maybe the 50 wide open, where in addition to its slightly swirly edges it also has a slightly softer detail level, though plenty sharp. But I love its bokeh and rendering. Possibly my favorite lens I've ever owned.

But I've taken nice CUs with the 50 that I think would have been more flattering with a longer lens. And if the subject is overweight or has a large nose -- forget it. I'm going 85 and above for CUs. So that's partly why I want longer portrait lenses available, and also simply for reach in doc/events where i can't get close or don't want to intrude in their personal space

Here's a recent wedding video I shot and edited, mostly on the 50 (before I had the 35 and 135). 0:11 - 0:26 is 24/50. After that is mostly 50 (with some 24 and 70-180), but probably not very revealing of character until 3:55 - 4:08, which is all 50 and you see some foreground bokeh, fine detail wide open, flare resistance. And maybe 5:07 - 5:37 is useful, I think that's all 50 again

https://vimeo.com/746707403/d77640f880
 
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