SAG Indie

I just got a call back from the local SAG office. The official word is that even if he is a Producer on the film and writing the checks, "the production" still has to pay him $100/day plus health and pension.

Even if he wanted to defer that payment, it still has to go through the hands of SAG to make the Ultra Low Contract legal. Once it came back to him, if he wants to funnel it back into "the production" he can choose to do so at that time. Of course, now that $100/day has been taxed (or will be at years end) so after funneling it through SAG it's not really $100 anymore. More like $100 - taxes - health and pension.

Take note. If you are a SAG actor and want to make your own movie (and be in it) and stay on SAG's good side, this is the process you'll go through.
 
Patrick_Swinnea said:
I just got a call back from the local SAG office. The official word is that even if he is a Producer on the film and writing the checks, "the production" still has to pay him $100/day plus health and pension.

Even if he wanted to defer that payment, it still has to go through the hands of SAG to make the Ultra Low Contract legal. Once it came back to him, if he wants to funnel it back into "the production" he can choose to do so at that time. Of course, now that $100/day has been taxed (or will be at years end) so after funneling it through SAG it's not really $100 anymore. More like $100 - taxes - health and pension.

Take note. If you are a SAG actor and want to make your own movie (and be in it) and stay on SAG's good side, this is the process you'll go through.
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No matter how SAG changes, adds to, or subtracts from the contracts, Fringes will be one area that will never be changed - Death, Taxes, and Sag Fringes..... :evil:
 
$100/day + fringes is not bad, even on a shoestring budget. After all, you're only paying for a few shooting days, and if your friend puts the $100 back into the production, then you're only paying the fringes for a few days.
 
$100/day + fringes is not bad, even on a shoestring budget. After all, you're only paying for a few shooting days, and if your friend puts the $100 back into the production, then you're only paying the fringes for a few days.
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Agreed. I wouldn't put together a complete cast of SAG actors at $100 a day on a no-budget flick, but if it's just one actor it's not bad. As you said, bad acting kills a lot of indie movies. I'd rather do everything no/deferred pay, but I'd be willing to pay my leads the $100 a day. In my case, that would mean that more of the other expenses would have to go on credit cards though since I don't have financing.

Another though about SAG indie. One thing that scares the hell out of me as I prepare for my first feature is keeping actors. Since I can't afford to pay people (beyond feeding them and giving them some gas money), I worry about casting a lead who ends up quitting halfway through production. I've heard a lot of indie horror stories about this happening. Everyone thinks it will be fun to shoot a movie until they spend a few long days there. If it's a small part, I could always quickly recast or rewrite the pages to cut the part, but if it's the lead character you can't really do that. I've heard several first-time directors say they cast themselves for that reason. I think Ed Burns cast himself in Brothers McMullen because he figured it was one less actor he had to worry about showing up. I like actors and will treat them well and with respect, so I'm not worried so much about personal conflict. But I do worry about someone deciding they just don't want to put in that much time for another ten days or something. Anyway, what I'm wondering is, if you use the SAG indie agreement, wouldn't you have some sort of recourse if an actor decided to quit during production? I guess I should check their web site. Anyone have any thoughts about that?

Cheers,

Josh
 
I don't think you'd have any recourse. The Ultra Low contract (can't speak for the others) states, "Professional performers shall have the right to accept other professional employment during the course of production, however, the performer shall attempt to provide thirty-six (36) hours notice of a conflicting professional engagement."

So, in fact, they could bail on you with basically one day's notice.

But I don't think any professional actor would do that. When you're shooting a movie with your friends you never really know who's going to show up for the day. Like you said, everyone gets excited about making a movie, then finds out how boring it can be to work on a a shoot.

Pro actors usually know what their signing up for and IMO are less likely to lose interest (unless some other area of production is killing the show).

You guys are right about the $100 thing. We talked last night and we figure if we schedule him for a packed 5 days on camera we're looking at maybe $100 in fringes after the money has been through the machine. So it's not that bad.
 
I guess I glossed over that when I read the ultra low budget agreement the other day. I think you're right that it's non-professionals who are more likely to walk. I'm just going to assume that I won't be able to count on my friends who say they want to help. Sure they'll all be there the first day, but I'm sure they'll get bored quickly. That's fine. Fewer people to feed! This is why actors are pampered so much. More than anyone, a lead actor is not replaceable once you have significant footage. You could replace your DP, sound recordist, even the director, and it wouldn't be as noticeable as having to recast your lead.
 
A professional actor, guild member or not, isn't very likely to walk out on a job that they have committed to. Their reputation as an actor is certainly effected by their work ethic.

Lets face it; an actor making $100/day is not doing a project for "the money", consider all that they spend on training, driving to auditions and call backs, agent and/or manager commissions, headshot photography, printing, postage, etc. With the ultra low budget contract, you are getting a professional who normally makes nearly $700/day for 1/7 of their minimum day rate! I don't think that you will get a similar consideration from the equipment manufacturers, rental houses, expendables suppliers, just because you are shooting an ultra low budget project. I can tell you from personal experience (I have a teen daughter who is a professional actor), that even at scale, an actor isn't making much money after they cover all their expenses. At $100/day, it is likely costing them to be working. This is not to say that they won't be happy to get the job; most actors would rather work than eat if given the choice, its what they love, so they will do about anything to work on a good project.
 
khmuse said:
most actors would rather work than eat if given the choice, its what they love, so they will do about anything to work on a good project.
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That's the key right there. If you can get your actors to believe in the project and in your ability to do a good job, then they'll have no problem making a commitment. That's why sometime you even see big name Hollywood stars working on independent projects.
 
Under the Ultra Low Budget, do you have to keep sag time sheets for the entire shoot, or just days with sag actors?
 
I am about to work on a project and I may use some SAG actors, but it'll all be deffered... If I get distribution I will pay each actor scale per amount of days worked.
 
great thread! I'm trying to get an actress who is a good friend of mine to be able to star in my film but she is SAG and a pretty big name already
 
i'm going to the SAG indie workshop in LA on thursday to learn more about the ultra low budget contract. anyone else going?
 
Wow this is a great resource! I love this thread. Do you know where I can find more contracts and actor's agreements & waivers? I didn't even know there was a thing called Financial Core.

I was also surprised about the statement made by member Sumfun. He said that as long "Technically, SAG only has jurisdiction if the project is shot on film. For video, the union is AFTRA. So a SAG performer is not violating his union agreement if he works for free on a project shot on video."

But no one clarified in subsequent postings if this would be an issue later on if the video got blown up to 16 or 35 mm film? Would you still be accountable for SAG fees?

Also I think someone ought to start a poll to see what the majority of people shoot on for most of their projects. VHS, Beta, miniDV, film, etc.? It might all be 100% mini-DV, since this is a DVXuser forum, but then we might find some interesting results.
 
l33t_specialist said:
I was also surprised about the statement made by member Sumfun. He said that as long "Technically, SAG only has jurisdiction if the project is shot on film. For video, the union is AFTRA. So a SAG performer is not violating his union agreement if he works for free on a project shot on video.".
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sumfun was/is misinfomed.
 
well, i went. the biggest thing i learned is that you cannot defer payment to sag actors anymore. not even the ultra low budget or short film contracts allow for it. the experimental contract allowed this but it does not exist anymore. the minimum is $100/day plus 14.8% to the sag pension fund. and you have to post a bond to sag in the amount of 40% of what you will pay the talent, which they hold for the duration of the shoot. so you essentially have to be prepared to budget an extra 40% of money going to the sag actors.
 
Brandon Rice said:
I am about to work on a project and I may use some SAG actors, but it'll all be deffered... If I get distribution I will pay each actor scale per amount of days worked.
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deferred? who is your SAG rep? i just came from the SAG Indie seminar on thursday night and was told SAG no longer allows deferred payments. its now $100/day minimum for budgets under $200,000.

but if you negotiated something else, i'd like to hear more about it and who your rep at SAG is that you negotiated with. i only ask because they were emphatic that actors cannot accept deferred payment on an individual basis because it flies in the face of the purpose of a union -- to protect the rights of the acting community.

im assuming your paperwork is in order because if you're going around SAG, but using SAG talent, the moment you are offered a distribution deal, SAG will hit you up for scale and penalties which usually far exceed the money you will be offered in a distribution deal. many films have been caught in this situation making them impossible to distribute. SAG has taken many producers to court over this as well.
 
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tommyinla said:
Hey cygnet74, I went to that workshop. It was very informative. Where were you sitting?
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back row. right next to one of the big columns -- maybe ten seats down from the guy that kept asking antagonizing questions about SAG shutting down productions.

you? or was that you?
 
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