Sachtler Sticks Alternatives

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ibhhvc

Active member
I have really had it with Sachtler Legs. I love their heads and I'll probably stick with their heads forever, but I'm sick of "investing" in Sachtler tripods that just won't last so... I don't care about price. Who makes legs that aren't too heavy, will hold a light (~10lb) rig, and most of all won't break after a couple years of use?

The obvious answer is Gitzo, but I'm concerned about the added time it takes to raise and lower those legs. Miller Solo legs sound great, but I have heard a few bad things about their durability.

I have only heard good things about O'Connor 35L's, so that might be my answer right there. Any others?
 
^He just said he heard bad things about Miller Solos :D

I don't think there are any perfect legs out there. Always tradeoffs between weight, payload, portability, usability, durability and cost. Lot of factors right there. But what exactly do you need it for? Quite a few ENG people seem to use the Millers and Gitzos - set it at eyeline, then just carry it around. For narrative, the adjustability sure helps, since you need a wider range of angles...but then again, if you are actually on a narrative shoot, you'd have at least a small crew instead of a one-man band, and it shouldn't be too tough to change it - your camera op/assistant/dp or PA could change it as you guys are blocking the scene. A good all-around tripod seems to be the Manfrotto 536. Robust enough for red cams and relatively light weight. You're also dealing with lever locks rather than twist locks, and some people feel the levers are faster and easier than twisting the gitzo-type locks. It's not the lightest, but it seems like a fairly good compromise with all factors, especially cost.
 
I have a set of Vinten pozi-lock legs with my Sachtler FSB8 head and love the combo, haven't had an issue with it.
 
Thanks for the responses so far, and very sorry to have shot off a request for a "one size fits all" tripod solution.

I shoot solo, but the work I do requires constant readjustment of tripod height. Thanks for the tip on the Manfrotto 536. I will investigate that immediately. And thanks David for the O'Connor tip. O'Connor legs keep getting good comments. As do the Vinten Pozi Lock legs. Vinten legs and a Sachtler head... Sounds like a nice combo...
 
1990s satchlers?

I was in a shop about to pony out on new (speedlock) satchler legs and ended up buying some 1990s ex rental legs - 1/4 the price and they actually felt a lot better made!

S
 
Morgan—

Interesting... You wouldn't happen to know what model you picked up?

David—

I'm assuming you're talking about a hard case as opposed to padded nylon?



This is just me thinking out loud, since I've never used Gitzo sticks:

If you're using something like the Gitzo G1410 which has a max height of 64" with the legs at 24 degrees, you can always pretty quickly splay the legs out to the 55 degree setting. If my math is correct, that drops the tripod down to 40". I wonder if having that ability to quickly change heights by 2' (approximately head height to sitting height) makes up for the fact that every once in a while you have to take ages to make fine adjustments. (Although I guess that puts your footprint diameter up to 9.5' which is a little absurd for most situations.)

The only reason I bring up Gitzo again is that they are proven to last for decades, which is one quality I'm really looking for.
 
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The look like this http://www.studiogears.com/Sachtler..._Aluminum_Tripod_Legs_Maximum_Load_77_lbs.htm

You will note that they have large wing nuts to screw down the leg sliders unlike the modern ones which have an eccentric lever that feels flimsy

Mine have a floor spreader (tread on it as you raise the camera)

I own Solos too, the sachlers win by a mile on small height adjustments, the solos win on going close to the the floor and really high

Personally the Sachtlers are my go to choice.. (F3+rig) I mainy use the solos with a DSLR or something small for Bcam

I have 75 bowl so can swap around - I have a nice miller 25 head and a s*%tty but light manfrotto head.

I also have Gitzos from the 1970s, the leg action is not that pleasant now! - I dont know if modern Gitzos are any different to Solos - they seem to raid the same parts bin..

S
 
In my 'sticks investigation' that ended with the sachler purchase I also found out that Ronford Baker will make their legs in Carbon Fibre.

Actually affordable, but long lead time and completely arrogant to deal with (I guess if you are kitting up for Skyfall they get interested)

S
 
Very interesting. Those Sachtlers do look nice. Maybe I'll get lucky on eBay. And Ronford looks nice as well...
 
So in a funny twist, I ended up ordering a Miller DS10/Miller Solo package. I did some more research and it seems like people are pretty split over these legs, but I ended up finding enough good feedback on them that I thought they'd be worth a shot.

Just got the rig in the mail today and I have to say, not only are they great, I feel like most of what I read about them ahead of time was pure misinformation. The most significant argument against these kinds of legs is the setup time argument: that for whatever reason, legs with this design take a lot longer to change height positions, especially incrementally, than their spreader-legs brothers.

After initial setup and cursory testing, I have to say I can detect nothing of the sort. I have heard that Gitzo and Manfrotto 535 legs don't drop down on their own when you loosen them, thus necessitating the operator to bend down and pull them out by hand. Not so with the Miller Solo legs, at least the copy I have. With one quick twist, the legs drop on their own, with another twist they are locked.

The added wonderful bonus is that I don't have a spreader to tangle with as I reach across the tripod to relevel the leg across from me. If I want to fold the legs up, I can do it with one motion because there's no spreader in the middle to catch. If I want to splay the legs out, there's no spreader in the middle to loosen. Not to mention the fact that I don't have to constantly worry about breaking said spreader with every move.

I feel like I need to say this again: the adjustment of height, from very high to very low or just incrementally takes no longer than traditional sticks, and is, if anything, quicker because there's no spreader in the way. I can see how other models of this design that have legs that don't drop on their own would take longer to adjust height, but these Miller Solo legs feel built for one thing: speed of setup, adjustment and breakdown.
 
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I have carbon fibre Solo sticks with my Arrow head, and they're magnificently versatile - from high-hat-low to stand on a chair just to operate high. You can also take them into any kind of terrain and set them up just fine. They absolutely win in the versatility stakes. But they are a lot slower and more awkward to make smaller adjustments to. It's a trade off (as most things are).

I'll be adding a set of conventional sticks to my kit to help cover both scenarios.
 
Grug said:
I'll be adding a set of conventional sticks to my kit to help cover both scenarios.
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This is where I am; Solo's for running around picking up Broll (FS100), Sachtlers for Acam (F3) which usually has more critical compositions, particularly eye-lines.

S
 
I suspect that discrepancies in experiences may come from differing camera weights. I am using a fairly light DSLR rig, and I swear that for me the smaller adjustments (at least what I've tried out at home here) go just as quickly as they did with my Sachtler legs. I can imagine, though, that if I had an F3 and rig on them, the experience might be a bit different.

Even so, it feels like the Solo legs really follow through where they're supposed to follow through: versatility with lighter cameras that you're already more likely to be carrying with you for a more RnG job. If I only shot in a studio or only did interview setups, I would probably not be so excited by these legs.
 
ibhhvc said:
I suspect that discrepancies in experiences may come from differing camera weights. I am using a fairly light DSLR rig, and I swear that for me the smaller adjustments (at least what I've tried out at home here) go just as quickly as they did with my Sachtler legs. I can imagine, though, that if I had an F3 and rig on them, the experience might be a bit different.

Even so, it feels like the Solo legs really follow through where they're supposed to follow through: versatility with lighter cameras that you're already more likely to be carrying with you for a more RnG job. If I only shot in a studio or only did interview setups, I would probably not be so excited by these legs.
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I guess that is a perfect summary. I was sold them with a big camera and felt very let down - as they have been paired with my smaller cams they have come into their own..

Miller do sell them with the Arrow25 head for 20lb+ rigs - that is not really appropriate IMO

S
 
I'm a fan of the Miller Solos and have two sets. I find them quick to set up in ENG/doc/interview type situations, love their ability to go very low, appreciate the portability, and have encountered no durability problems, although my work is not too intense and I'm gentle with my gear. My second set of Solos replaced a Sachtler aluminum tripod because I was tired of messing with the spreader, and I haven't regretted the change at all.
 
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