Sachtler ACE XL

I did exactly that and I'd do it again in a heartbeat. It's far superior. It won't hold a great deal of weight. in my case I never get close to the 17.6 lbs they claim is the max load. But my 504 was never particularly smooth at any weight. The ACE moves nicely. I bought it specifically for shoots that require a great deal of hiking or walking and certain travel jobs where traveling light is mandatory. I'm happily using it for much more than that. I seems to be really well made. It is limited in it's settings which comes with

Don't get me wrong it is no replacement for a 100mm head/tripod, just a great option for a very light weight setup.

Shopping around I found a great deal on a System Ace XL MS CF. I was surprised. Didn't think you could get good deals on Sachtler. They released the Flowtech 75 with a mid level spreader right after I bought mine so I'd check that out as well. In my case I might use that for a second heavy camera with a different head. I keep reading people who like the FSB-8's.
 
Just wanted to provide an update. I bought the ACE XL and overall I am happy. I still have my 504 but it's going to be kept at an office for a long term project for a client.

I don't have previous experience with other sachtler tripod heads so take my opinion with a grain of salt. That being said I think I like it better than the 504 head. It's lighter in weight which I apprecaite, slightly smaller footprint, and holds a little more than the 504 seems too. The counterbalance system is also much better once you learn to set it properly.

I don't know how I feel about the stepped tension settings as opposed to the friction tension on the 504 but it's very smooth once you lock it in and won't change by itself.

The biggest issue with the head is that the tie down bowl handle is platic and the nut is a non standard size and short so that you can't attach it to a non sachtler tripod. That being said, I removed the bolt which is a standard 3/8" on the bowl side and bought a benro bowl head adapter which is a nice rubber tie down. I decided to convert it to a 100mm bowl since my induro 505xxl is 100mm anyway. I might spend the time in the future to find a long 3/8" bolt with a stopper nut. This would allow me to use the ace xl with the benro tie down but skipping the extra bowl mount adapter.
 
I have a client that has some ACE heads and they are obviously NOT what you get with a "real" Sachtler head. One of my biggest gripes about them is the tilt lock lever is attached to the outer portion of the head that moves when it tilts, so when you lock and un-lock it, it causes the head to tilt slightly up or down. Makes it pretty much impossible to transition from having the head locked to making a move seamlessly "on-air".
 
I think I'm going to retract my previous review. After using the head more and more, I am starting to see it's pitfalls for live work. The step adjustments are annoying to change so I end up not moving them at all. The locking mechanism feels a bit cheap and even though it holds the weight better than the 504 head, at longer focal lengths, it's clear that there is more play in the head whcih introduces shake. I'm going to be keeping the 504 as my main head for now and the ace as my secondary.
 
If there is one thing I've figured out in my time here on DVX, its that most people do not want to spend money on a good head. They spend all of their money on the "sexy" stuff and then want a tripod set-up for $500. Or they don't realize the importance until it's too late. All of these "little" cheap heads suck. I'm sorry, but they do. Even early in my career, I understood the importance and I think I spent at least $5K on my first tripod set-up(Vinten 10LF/CF stix). 21 years later, I still have that head and it still works. And it still outperforms any of those cheap heads that are constantly discussed and asked about on here.

Go on eBay, I see great used heads on there all of the time. I'd rather spend a few grand on a great used head than throw away a few hundred on a new, inadequate one.
 
I don't doubt what you are saying is true. Maybe I've learned to work in a style that is condusive with "cheap" heads (barley panning, etc.) or maybe the work I do doesn't really require an amazing head but either way I get away with what I have pretty well. I am almost always locked down for tripod use. If not locked down i'm either on steadicam, gimbal, tabletop dolly, slider or monopod.
 
Ok let the snickering begin.

I generally buy the best equipment I can afford, even when it hurts. I had really thought about going in deep on a new FSB-10 since I have 100mm tripods. Like the OP, I don't tend to pan too much and have issues dropping over 2k on something which most of the time would be locked down. So I went cheap and bought a new generation Manfrotto N-8. Famously, they had a recall of all heads shortly after release. After getting my replacement and using the N-8 for a while, I actually like it. At $450 it punches above its weight IMHO. The unique gas strut counterbalance mechanism actually works well, but the vertical brake is a little weak for a full load of 17lbs. No danger of the load crashing, but you need to be careful not to bump the cam when locked off pointing up or down in the extreme with a top heavy load like a rigged DSLR. Panning is respectable, especially for the $$. Like the OP, I previously had a 504 which isn't nearly as good as the N-8. A nice feature of the N-8 is the flat base so it can be mounted on any half-ball. They have just recently released the similarly designed but larger N-12.

I can hear the laughter all the way here in the PNW, but I don't care since I have that extra $1600 in my back pocket. I probably don't know what I am missing......
 
ggrantly said:
I probably don't know what I am missing......
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Honestly, that is a lot of it. There are so many people involved in this industry now that have never used real, heavy duty professional support equipment. Only small(er) consumer and prosumer stuff, so they really don't know what a good head feels like and how it should behave.

When I started, there was no "small" gear if you were shooting TV. It was pretty much all 25lb+ Betacams(most job listings for TV photogs usually said something to the effect of "must be able to carry 75lbs of equipment". How many people do we hear now that complain that a C300 is too heavy?). You HAD to have a good head. And all of that mass, helps with slow, smooth dampened moves, too.

Not ranting or picking on anyone, just trying to help people make make enlightened, better decisions on gear.
 
"Enlightened and better decisions on gear" are pretty easy to make in this case; just spend more money. This is pretty simple and not much wisdom involved in that decision making process. And I 100% agree that a Sachtler or Vinton head would be a significant improvement over my N-8 and would bring a smile to my face. No doubt an expensive head would collect oooglers from the peanut gallery too. The real issue is what is the best business decision and not just buying what is more expensive. Does a FSB-10 perform significantly better than a cheaper head when it is locked down 95% of the time? Can I live with the N8 for the 5% of the time it really is in motion? I mean the thing does work after all, just not as well. Does that limitation bother me enough to make me buy expensive? In this case, the difference in cost has allowed me to own other camera motion gear which I might not have otherwise owned. In my case, that seems more enlightened in the big picture until I have some extra cash that I don't want to put into my retirement account.

Not at all saying you are wrong about the gear itself, but an enlightened decision is about more than spending more money.
 
Run&Gun said:
If there is one thing I've figured out in my time here on DVX, its that most people do not want to spend money on a good head. They spend all of their money on the "sexy" stuff and then want a tripod set-up for $500. Or they don't realize the importance until it's too late. All of these "little" cheap heads suck. I'm sorry, but they do. Even early in my career, I understood the importance and I think I spent at least $5K on my first tripod set-up(Vinten 10LF/CF stix). 21 years later, I still have that head and it still works. And it still outperforms any of those cheap heads that are constantly discussed and asked about on here.

Go on eBay, I see great used heads on there all of the time. I'd rather spend a few grand on a great used head than throw away a few hundred on a new, inadequate one.
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Have to agree.

I just sold my OConnor 1030D setup in fantastic condition. Now the next guy is using it for his career.

As a side note, I also have a Vinten Vision 10LF available for sale if someone wants a nice 100mm setup without the OConnor price tag.

Dave
 
ggrantly said:
"Enlightened and better decisions on gear" are pretty easy to make in this case; just spend more money. This is pretty simple and not much wisdom involved in that decision making process. And I 100% agree that a Sachtler or Vinton head would be a significant improvement over my N-8 and would bring a smile to my face. No doubt an expensive head would collect oooglers from the peanut gallery too. The real issue is what is the best business decision and not just buying what is more expensive. Does a FSB-10 perform significantly better than a cheaper head when it is locked down 95% of the time? Can I live with the N8 for the 5% of the time it really is in motion? I mean the thing does work after all, just not as well. Does that limitation bother me enough to make me buy expensive? In this case, the difference in cost has allowed me to own other camera motion gear which I might not have otherwise owned. In my case, that seems more enlightened in the big picture until I have some extra cash that I don't want to put into my retirement account.

Not at all saying you are wrong about the gear itself, but an enlightened decision is about more than spending more money.
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I disagree and you even got around to it yourself when you look at cost differences allowing you to buy more than one type of motion gear. Part of that wisdom is knowing what gear is going to serve YOU best(meaning each individual). And that doesn't necessarily mean automatically spending more money. In your case, if you never make a move with your head, but use a slider all of the time, then spending part of the money on a slider is a wise decision(although you need a good head to make smooth pans and tilts on the slider, unless its a fully motion controlled unit).

Now for me, even today, I'm much better served with one good head, than a mediocre head and mediocre slider. I use a slider maybe a handful of times in a year(twice so far), but I have to have a good tripod/head all the time. I shoot a lot of sports based content and it's a regular occurrence for me to be shooting with a 25lb+ camera, 22x lens w/2x extender engaged(~810mm FoV equivalent on s35) tracking a professional athlete running and then maybe stopping and turning and running again almost instantly. A few weeks ago I was shooting a piece on a college baseball player with my F55 and I was using a 400mm lens with the cameras center punch, and again was shooting at ~800mm FoV equivalent. I have to have a head that can perform under those demands. So it would be un-wise for ME to skimp on the head so that I could buy a head and slider(if I had to make that decision).

So, it's not once size fits all. Not everyone needs a $10K head that can hold a 75lb payload with 400mm, 800mm or 1200mm lenses, but I still stand by my original comments and think that most people skimp on tripod/head set-ups or at the very least under estimate the need for a good head.
 
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