S-8mm. camera

avr

avr

Well-known member
Hi again, well, in a post below i told you "I´m a video guy" I don´t have any experience with film cameras.
My intention is learn with film cameras, this is a whim (I know that its more expensive an hard that shooting in video). I´m thinking in a Super 8 mm. camera, I think that this is a good way to learn (expose the film, movements, etc).
Well the question is: someone have any suggestion for a S8 camera? Beaulieu 4008?
thanks a lot
 
I have heard that those are among the best super 8 cameras around. Don't take me *too* seriously though, because I have never even shot super 8, but I have done a little research. There are deffinetly more knowledgable people on this board though. Another good camera is the Canon 814xl autozoom (I may have gotten the model number wrong). Nizo also makes good super 8 cameras.
 
the beaulieus are wonderful cameras. in terms of image, registration, speed options, etc, they are quite possbly the best cameras in existence. they are one of the very few s8 cams with removable lens. however, they can be finicky in terms of repair/ reliability stuff. there are still a handful of good repair people around, but it's expensive. nizos are often great, although many models have a lightmeter that requires a hard to find battery. their sound series- the 4056, 4080, 6056, and 6080 are probably the quietest super8 cams. (certainly the quietest i've heard, and i've owned or used most of them.) this is something to think about if you're considering doing sync-sound work. (you can get any of these cam
 
the beaulieus are wonderful cameras. in terms of image, registration, speed options, etc, they are quite possbly the best cameras in existence. they are one of the very few s8 cams with removable lens. however, they can be finicky in terms of repair/ reliability stuff. there are still a handful of good repair people around, but it's expensive. nizos are often great, although many models have a lightmeter that requires a hard to find battery. their sound series- the 4056, 4080, 6056, and 6080 are probably the quietest super8 cams. (certainly the quietest i've heard, and i've owned or used most of them.) this is something to think about if you're considering doing sync-sound work. (you can get any of these cam
 
the beaulieus are wonderful cameras. in terms of image, registration, speed options, etc, they are quite possbly the best cameras in existence. they are one of the very few s8 cams with a removable lens. however, they can be finicky in terms of repair/ reliability stuff. there are still a handful of good repair people around, but it's expensive. nizos are often great, although many models have a lightmeter that requires a hard to find battery. their sound series- the 4056, 4080, 6056, and 6080 are probably the quietest super8 cams. (certainly the quietest i've heard, and i've owned or used most of them.) this is something to think about if you're considering doing sync-sound work. (you can get any of these cams converted to crystal-sync for $500. other people do quasi-sync stuff with super8. the better cams are often close enough for shorter takes. some people do head and tail slates of their shots, and then use audio software to adjust the speed of their soundtrack to match the picture.) the nizos, like the beaulieus, can be a bit squirrelly.

as a gross generalization, but one that's borne out in my experience as well as tons of anecdotal info, japanese cams tend to be more reliable than the german ones. my old nikon super zoom8 is my only camera that has operated flawlessly as long as i've had it (around 12 years i guess.) i have a beaulieu 4008, a nizo 4080, and a cheapo sankyo. the problem with the japanese ones is that most of them don't have as many features as the better german ones. for example, even canon's top of the line camera (a great camera- the 1014xls,) doesn't have a true slow motion. their slo-mo is 36fps, which would be slomo if you were projecting (or transferring) at 18fps, but 24fps is what you should use as your "normal" speed. many of the canons don't even do 24fps. (that's something to look out for with cameras in general- since s8 was a consumer format, the standard practice was to shoot at 18fps, which gives you more filming time, and is "good enough" in terms of motion resolution.)
 
It's a great idea to "learn" with a Super 8 camera. At UCLA's film school, we were not allowed to shoot in 16mm or 35mm until we had mastered Super 8. It's a good way to get "hands on" with latitudes, contrast ratios, and lighting for film. I am a bit depressed, though, because I now hear that UCLA (along with most of the other film schools) are leaning towards digital video for their beginning classes. Another chapter in the demise of film. FotoKem (a film lab here in L.A.) is experiencing less student work these days and CFI (another lab) was bulldozed to the ground a couple of months ago.
 
Top-of-the-line Super8 cams include:
Beaulieu 6008 & 7008 (only Super8 cameras that are crystal-sync, and one of only two lines that use interchangeable lenses. Go for the 6008 or 7008 so you can use AA batteries instead of a custom rechargeable battery cell).

Nikon R10 and R8.

Canon 1014XL-S and 814XL-S.

Elmo 1012S-XL and 612S-XL

Several Nizo models, although I've never used them.

Chinon Pacific 200/8XL (along with the Beaulieus and the Elmos, one of the few cameras that can use the 200' magazine).

If you want crystal sync, the 6008 or 7008 are pretty much the only way to go (unless you go for some aftermarket conversion). If you want quiet (as in, quiet enough to actually shoot dialogue) the Nizos are the quietest.
 
I own a 6008 Pro with 24fps crystal sync and the Schnieder zoom lens plus a few accessories like the intervelometer and wired remote. It can take the magstripe film (and the 200 foot blimp) for in camera sound, but wild audio is the way to go indie anyhow. Bought it back in 1981 with my collected HS grad money. Obviously a time when I had more dollars than sense.

Besides a few 'experimental' shots I exposed about a dozen 50' reels hoping to qualify for a film grant out of Mineapolis, MN. Sort of a music video based on my 1980 Special Edition Turbo Trans Am and Led Zeppelin's "Trampled Under Foot". (Couldn't get the town counsel to block traffic and let me drive over the posted limit, so I did it anyway.) I'm sure most of the footage sucked and it was a rush job to the processor to get the film back in time to edit then submit 'an example of previous work' to qualify for competition for the grant. Well, one or two reels of the 'best' shots never came back and I couldn't find a super-8 editor in the entire state of Iowa anyway.

I had submitted a very detailed budget/shooting schedule for my proposed project -- a Star Wars parody -- but figured since the deadline for submission had passed I was disqualified.

The committee must have been impressed with my professionalism with the proposal because someone from "Film In The Cities' organization CALLED ME well after the official deadline to see if I was still interested! I told them of my inability to meet the 'previous work' requirements and excused myself. What a fairminded young man I was. It only dawned on me later that if they were bending the rules on the deadline, I was probably IN! Doh! Dumbass! This was a grant for $12,000.00! Lesson learned I guess. Still wondering what could have been and would still like to pursue this parody someday.

Now I'm wondering what this camera kit is worth, although the sentimental value is still pretty strong. Then again everyone has their price!


LHB
 
I had a Canon 1014XLS for many years and loved the camera. The lens was fantastic and was very fast. It seemed like it could make light. I could shot, with very slow K-40, in situations where my light meter told me to run and hide. When I used faster films, I could shoot anywhere and get great images. I shot a series of about 20 commercials for a Royal Oak MI specialty boutique using the 1014 which involved shooting live fashion shows (the shop was a fetish leather shop, so the fashion shows were very visual) and the Canon always came through with flying colors.

I have shot with the Beaulieu 4008 and 5008 and I, personally do not like them. The auto exposure control were a pain in the ass as was the zoom servos. The viewfinder was very dim, IMO, and it was very hard to focus in lower light conditions. I also did not like the ni-cad battery system the 4008 and 5008 had. I had batteries run out during an event even after adaquate charging. (I know, I know, I should have bought some more, but was budget constrained at the time.) The cameras were nowhere near as fast as the Canon 1014 XLS. Some people love the Beaulieus, so maybe my experiences were unique. I have never used the 6008 or 7008 but they do look like very good cameras.

By the way, from the above posts, the 200 ft Super8 cartridge and sound striped film have been discontinued. So has Kodachrome 40 (it is still available in 16mm). I thought I would cry when I heard that, I love the stock. (I know, I need to get out more!!).

When considering the Canon 814 or 1014, make sure you are looking at the XLS versions. This designation means that the camara were "X"isting "L"ight, "S"ound cameras. The sound part is moot, but the "XL" gets you a wider shutter angle. The XLSs are also newer.
 
Where do you even buy a super 8 camera these days? Out of curiosity, I checked some of the camera sites and can't seem to find any of these cameras for sale. I also doubt that many of my local retailers have them. Do you have to go the ebay route?

Cheers,

Josh
 
Ebay has alot. I have seen some show up at the local goodwill too. Estate sales are another good place to look. Someone posted a link to a site that had tons, but I forget the URL. Go to www.filmshooting.com and I believe they have some links to just such a site....
 
I made a feature film on an Elmo 1012xls. Great camera. Pretty quiet. The best thing nowadays with this camera is that they go pretty cheaply on Ebay, while the Canon 1014xls and the Beaulieus still fetch $400 - $800.

I loved the old 200' magazines. 10 minutes of film. Single system sound was nice too. Of course, with Super 8 this was par for the course. The Elmo 1012xls and the Canon 1014xls and the top of the line Nizos were considered really good at recording sound.

Anyways, I recommend going the Ebay route, just make sure you buy from someone with a lot of good, relevant feedback. (Relevant as in they didn't just sell or buy a bunch of low dollar crap to build up their feedback so they can rip you off on a high dollar item)
 
i've owned dozens of 8mm/super8 cameras since 1975 and you can't go wrong with Canon, Elmo, Beaulieu (though too finicky) Yashica and Nikon.

i still own my Yashica Electro-6 LD that i bought new in 1979 and out all the 8mm camera's i've owned, it still produces some of the best pictures. Just ran a couple of reels through it and it still makes great footage. Clean, crisp pictures.

Jeff
 
The Film Group will crystal sync the Canon 1014 XL-S and 814 XL-S. I own both of these cameras and they not only provide great imagery, but are very durable and require little maintenance. I don't keep up with the pricing on these cams, but I did happen to see an 814 XL-S sell on ebay a week or two ago for around $650. I bought mine new in 1981 for $599US.

The Beaulieus I've had were always troublesome- something on them was always falling apart. Great cams if you can keep them together. Scot McPhie shot a Super 8 feature with K40 using (I believe) a Beaulieu. The fact that he did it on a small gauge camera with reversal film is proof that it doesn't take a $150K 35mm cam to capture good imagery for home viewing. He did tell me that he shot a lot of film at f/2.8, however, but that was because he was shooting reversal stock, not as a result of light failing to reach the film plane. I haven't been to his site (www.mango-a-gogo.com) recently, but he had a nice "making of" the film that provided a lot of insight on the use of Super 8 cams and K40 (which has now been discontinued and soon to be replaced with Kodak's new 64T). Some examples of the 64T filmstock can be found on filmshooting.com.

Tom Ballard
 
Tom Ballard said:
Scot McPhie shot a Super 8 feature with K40 using (I believe) a Beaulieu. The fact that he did it on a small gauge camera with reversal film is proof that it doesn't take a $150K 35mm cam to capture good imagery for home viewing. He did tell me that he shot a lot of film at f/2.8, however, but that was because he was shooting reversal stock, not as a result of light failing to reach the film plane. I haven't been to his site (www.mango-a-gogo.com) recently, but he had a nice "making of" the film that provided a lot of insight on the use of Super 8 cams and K40 (which has now been discontinued and soon to be replaced with Kodak's new 64T). Some examples of the 64T filmstock can be found on filmshooting.com.
Tom Ballard
Click to expand...

Scot sent me a DVD copy (PAL) of his super8 film "In My Image" and it's not bad. Some of the footage looks like it could pass for 16mm. Yes he did use a Beaulieu 4008zm.

You can tell he received quite a few bad cartridges because of the jitter. Too bad Kodak has not addressed this problem. Unfortunately you don't you get a bad cartridge until you view your footage and then it's too late.

He does some very good forced perspective shots of an old 1930's cargo plane with the help of Roger Evans of Moviestuff. All they used was an old model, but you can't tell. Looks very, very real.

Jeff
 
Hello,

I bought a Beaulieu 7008 and think the rechargeable NiCad battery pack is dead. What options do I have to replace it or use external power.

Thanks in advance for your advice.

Tom
 
Nizo 481

Nizo 481

If you're looking for a light-weighthed camera with lots of features, search for the Nizo 481, 561 or 801.

Lens: Schneider Variogon 1,8 / 8 - 48 mm
Split Image Focusing
Manual / Auto Zoom with 2 speeds
Frame rates: 6, 18, 24, 54 + single frame
Shutter degree: var.
Manual / Auto Exposure
Backlight Control
Time exposure !!!! FILM THE MOON!
Flash contact
Fades
Lap dissolve
Remote control socket
Cable release socket
Interval timer

You can find Nizo cameras here: http://www.super8camera.com/cameras/nizo/


 
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