Rumor: Sony A7s will have 4K video

I think a lot of people would overlook the rolling shutter "issue" if the price of the A7s was in line with the A7.

I put issue in quotes because some may not see it as an issue, I do, but having said that I would have to have a long think about it at say £1300 (A7 price) especially if the S35 HD output has acceptable rolling shutter. At £2500 it's a very different calculation and one that ends in no sale for Sony.
 
Michael Erlewine said:
Many (perhaps most) of us creating video documentaries (or whatever we shoot) have more than one camera. The Sony A7s looks to be a great low-light camera that is sharp as well. We will use it for its strengths, not its weaknesses. The fact that it does not skip lines when reading the sensor is a big advantage for many shots, especially for those of us who are shooting documentaries. We plan to combine it with our FS-700, Blackmagic Pocket Camera, various DSLRs, to have a range of options. Also looking at the GH4 for use in a 3-gimbal stabilizer. Like lenses, cameras also can have different tasks. I am more interested in what it can do than what it cannot do. It would never be our only video camera.
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Well put. Same here. Isn't this part of this business?
 
maarek said:
RS on that example video seems to be worse than the 5d3.
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Agreed, but I'll reserve judgement till the A7s is released. I have the 5d3 and a GH4 on order. I'm envisioning the A7s mostly for cleaner video in low light situations. I'm looking at shooting a music doc this winter, so I'll be spending a lot of time in clubs.
 
Bmc4k for bright outdoor action/fast scenes
Gh4 for slowmo
bmc2.5k for standard shoots
a7s for lowlight

All at a very affordable price. Good days we live in
 
photochris said:
... I'll be spending a lot of time in clubs.
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From my limited experience, you don't need crazy ISO in clubs... if you don't mind going, say, f/2.8. I shot this at ISO 1600 f/2 with a speedbooster (same light intake and DoF as ISO 3200 f/2 on a full frame camera), then I found I had to bring down many of the shots because they looked weird if they weren't darker. If you want to go f/5.6, then yes, you're going to need something like the A7s and its clean ISO 12800.
https://vimeo.com/89865249
 
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Owning many cameras that our lower in price fits what I like to do more than owning one expensive camera. I have pre-ordered the GH4 and I might pre-order the Sony if it comes in at a reasonable price. They both will excel at different things and like having flexibility in what I can capture light with.
 
Hi. First post (outside of new members forum)
Just saying that I recommend being careful shooting in clubs, especially when they use lasers:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J0TgaGePhJA

As for rolling shutter, the video filmed by Andrew Walker is a bit disingenuous.
On top of the A7s rolling shutter, you have:
1.7 - 4.1 ms ms of the 4k broadcast display or display on the back of the camera
1.7 ms of the display you're watching on (typical)
The rolling shutter of the camera filming the display, if it has any

That assumes that the display use raster scan, which is true for almost every CRT/LCD/OLED display.
Except for displays that turn of the backlight until scan-out is finished or rare pre-buffering OLED displays (e.g Lightboost, some VR headsets)

So while while the rolling shutter of the A7S might still be quite bad, based on eye-witness accounts, I don't think it will be as bad as shown in his video.

My 2c.
 
Dafilman21 said:
Owning many cameras that our lower in price fits what I like to do more than owning one expensive camera. I have pre-ordered the GH4 and I might pre-order the Sony if it comes in at a reasonable price. They both will excel at different things and like having flexibility in what I can capture light with.
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Definitely a lot of people coming from different places with regards to this camera. If you're investing in a new system, or drastically upgrading from a 5D2/7D setup then all the extra costs involved in the A7s could be a hinderance if paying at extra $3000 on top of a $2500 to get it working in 4k, and then it's still not a package that's as convenient as a C100.

If you can afford 5 camera systems then the price issue probably doesn't apply to you at all, but it certainly makes the GH4 more attractive to the lower budget segment. The truth probably is that making good use of 4k is still a couple years out of reach for budgets that low.
 
IanTheM said:
Definitely a lot of people coming from different places with regards to this camera. If you're investing in a new system, or drastically upgrading from a 5D2/7D setup then all the extra costs involved in the A7s could be a hinderance if paying at extra $3000 on top of a $2500 to get it working in 4k, and then it's still not a package that's as convenient as a C100.

If you can afford 5 camera systems then the price issue probably doesn't apply to you at all, but it certainly makes the GH4 more attractive to the lower budget segment. The truth probably is that making good use of 4k is still a couple years out of reach for budgets that low.
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I'd prefer the C100. I don't want any more cameras without built in ND and XLR. I"m also not hooking up an external recorder.
 
If you already own full frame lenses and need another solid 1080p cam with no regard for 4K the A7's is probably a decent cam to add your kit. Versatility to me is a good thing to have and you can achieve that with a number of cams or maybe just one high priced cam. However some of the higher end cams can only be so small, so having other cheaper, smaller cameras allows you to do different things. And I doubt to get 4K out of the Sony will cost you 5,500 with the atmos being under 2k. And even it does it then gives you more options than a C100 resolution and framrate wise.
 
Gillvane said:
I'd prefer the C100. I don't want any more cameras without built in ND and XLR. I"m also not hooking up an external recorder.
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Yeah I think if you have one camera then the C100 comes out on top. The only thing I really wish is that it had more dynamic range to handle highlights like the A7s supposedly has, but that might be too much of an ask from Canon who don't have the tech yet.

Dafilman21 said:
If you already own full frame lenses and need another solid 1080p cam with no regard for 4K the A7's is probably a decent cam to add your kit. Versatility to me is a good thing to have and you can achieve that with a number of cams or maybe just one high priced cam. However some of the higher end cams can only be so small, so having other cheaper, smaller cameras allows you to do different things. And I doubt to get 4K out of the Sony will cost you 5,500 with the atmos being under 2k. And even it does it then gives you more options than a C100 resolution and framrate wise.
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If the camera is 2.5k, and recorder 2k, and the XLRs 800. That's 5.5ish. Then after that you've got to add a battery solution because the A7s internal battery is bunk. Now you have a workable 'C100 with 4k.' For recording 1080p you have the option of a tiny body, but it's not even that much smaller than a 5D, granted the low light is great.

All this makes me just think that a FS100 mk2 with this sensor, but enough processing speed to deal with the rolling shutter, would be a killer camera (if they could have it come out at C100 prices). As long as it's more FS100 than those VG full frames.
 
I got a reply from Den:


What was your rig setup on the boat?


Den: "no rig just hand held, although I did use a Cineroid EVF on a few shots"
 
*snore*

I stopped reading at "external recorder."

Seriously, Sony's stills division has been doing some great innovating. Can't imagine why they consulted the makes-Nikon-look-like-a-risk-taker video division on this product just because its video mode is (slightly) less of an afterthought than on the A7/r. Excepting RED, motion digital seems to insist on staying a decade behind stills digital even though the technology developed for the latter should be adaptable in a way that would allow it to catch up. External recorders and 4:2:0 shouldn't even exist as concepts in 2014.

At least it still uses SD cards instead of going back to MiniDV tapes like the video division probably suggested, though. -.-
 
Lee Saxon said:
*snore*

I stopped reading at "external recorder."

Seriously, Sony's stills division has been doing some great innovating. Can't imagine why they consulted the makes-Nikon-look-like-a-risk-taker video division on this product just because its video mode is (slightly) less of an afterthought than on the A7/r. Excepting RED, motion digital seems to insist on staying a decade behind stills digital even though the technology developed for the latter should be adaptable in a way that would allow it to catch up. External recorders and 4:2:0 shouldn't even exist as concepts in 2014.

At least it still uses SD cards instead of going back to MiniDV tapes like the video division probably suggested, though. -.-
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My 32gb SD card can take 1100ish RAW stills from my T3i. That's about 45 seconds of video. Compression had always been the over arching problem with video. The F65 might only have a 16mp sensor, but sorting the thousands of frames it produces is a nightmare if they're 16-bit. It's terabytes and terabytes of data that the tech to deal with and store has been lagging behind. One of the main advantages of RED was their RAW compression, to ease data rates. Heavy data rates are what killed Dalsa & the F65's potential.

I'm not gonna argue they couldn't give it 10-bit output, but I really doubt there's an efficient way of storing all that data in that tiny body using contemporary media.
 
I can record 15min of 1080p (2.39:1) raw video on a 5D MK3 with a 64Gb CF card. If Sony chose Cfast 2 it could record 4k but the media is expensive. The Shogun is a good solution and a lot of people will just swap out their 5,6, or 7" monitors.

Looking at Den's handheld shots I don't think rolling shutter is going to be an issue. All it needs now is a raw hack.
 
Samuel H said:
I haven't decided yet, I need a lot more info (PRICE!!), but so far it's the only one that has me interested: it seems it will fit my budget (<$3K) and tick all the boxes I care about (full frame or APS-C+Speedbooster, sharp 1080p without aliasing/moire, lots of DR, nice colors, decent codec, at least 60fps). There could still be a dealbreaker, like price or RS, but I'm optimistic by nature...
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What kind of dynamic range are you expecting from this camera and how much DR have we typically been getting from DSLRs up to now?
 
hgf4 said:
What kind of dynamic range are you expecting from this camera and how much DR have we typically been getting from DSLRs up to now?
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Well enthusiastic forum posters have put the DR from 13 to 15 stops, I'll be surprised if it turns out to be anything like that and would expect 11.5-12.

Most DSLRs have been around 10-11.5.
 
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