rule of thirds question

HenryDee

HenryDee

Active member
Quick question,

Say your shooting a head shot... shoulders to the top of the head so kind of a close up.
would the rule of thirds dictate that you should try and match your subjects eye line with the top or bottom portion of the frame and if possible would you try and have one of their eyes hit one of the four intersection points.

Is this completely wrong and does composing head shots have to do with something else entirely ?
 
When composing shots you always want to consider the 180 degree rule, as well as the characters previous eye lines. If he is looking frame left in your medium shot, he obviously should still be looking in the same direction in your close ups. This is dictated by what it setup in your master.

Top or bottom of the frame, or looking at certain intersections of the frame is not necessary. The height which a character is looking is based on who he is talking to, obviously. If you had him looking towards the top corner of the frame, it would seem your other character has suddenly grown several feet.

Sit down and watch a few of your favorite films, and pay close attention to the way dialogue scenes are shot, and try to breakdown camera position and height, as well as eye lines and the 180 degree rule.
 
One of the reasons I'm messing up i think is because i was reading a photography magazine and they were talking about the rule of thirds. How it creates a really interesting shot if you have the subjects eye line on the top or bottom areas of the shot (not in all cases but some ) and how you can even put the subjects eye line in an intersection and it would create more of an interesting shot. .....but I guess theres so much more to think about in film, ...or should i say ...more "important" things to think about when framing a shot that should be looked at.

I'm starting to read the 5cs and shot by shot so hopefully I can begin to understand composition a bit better. thanks again.
 
I think the rule of thirds should come naturally to the cinematographer. There are definately more important things to worry abotu since often times the rule of thirds is broken to get a different type of effect.
 
egyptianboxer104 said:
I think the rule of thirds should come naturally to the cinematographer.
Click to expand...

This is correct, and it is exactly why we need to learn the fundamentals, yet people often try to ignore them in favor of "rules are made to be broken".

This is exactly the same as a basketball player needing to learn the fundamentals so he never has to think about that layup.

That is a great link, Hudson. Cant possibly put it better than that.
 
GageFX said:
This is correct, and it is exactly why we need to learn the fundamentals, yet people often try to ignore them in favor of "rules are made to be broken".

This is exactly the same as a basketball player needing to learn the fundamentals so he never has to think about that layup.
Click to expand...
Word.
 
GageFX said:
This is correct, and it is exactly why we need to learn the fundamentals, yet people often try to ignore them in favor of "rules are made to be broken".

This is exactly the same as a basketball player needing to learn the fundamentals so he never has to think about that layup.

That is a great link, Hudson. Cant possibly put it better than that.
Click to expand...

I do think it is inherent to the filmmaker and something not necessarily taught. It's really a gift, the visual intuitive.

The natural is rough, like an upolished diamond, but still a diamond. :lipsrseal:cheesy:
 
Do this and 90% of the time it'll work for chest up shots: 1st off let's agree, The rule of 3rds is a big giant tic-tack-toe image we imagine on the whole screen, agreed? Good.

Main rule: We [the audience] relate to the eyes of the actors. Often the eyes are the cornerstone of our work.

The top horizontal line, 1/3 down from the very top of the screen, is where most often the eyes of the subject go, if the top of the head gets cutoff, so what, give em a hair cut. The actor can look where they want.

If the actor is placed low in the Master scene try having their eyes on the lower horizontal line, they'll tend to look up, and action will come from above.

Center, Left, Right, screen placement:

The actor can be placed dead center or a little off to one side or another for most action in which the character is alone or not interacting with others.

Off-Centering: This placement signals to, us the audience, expect interaction. If there is Anticipated On/Off Screen action place actors L, or R, 1/3 [sometimes 1/2] into the screen addressing the empty portion for expected interaction in that space.

These are basic general guidelines. Play with it and see how it comes together. All of us have seen so much good camera work on TV, movies [all the time, year after year!] that we should know when its' correct.

Have fun!

About RULES: Cinematic grammar are rules we share so we can communicate effectively with one another. Yes, it's fun and exciting to have someone give us a fresh twist, but it is best if the occassional twist occurs amongst overwhelming abundant traditional cinematic grammar.

Too much rule breaking=audience alienation=boring=change channel.
 
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The rule of thirds is a good way to teach balance without symmetry. I use it all the time when I'm teaching classes to middle schoolers. :) Usually fifths works well too, but has a distinctly different feel.
 
On top of the Rule of thirds and 180 degree rule...add in the horizontal and vertical angles (30 degree rule) between shots and you have the basis for all cinematography. Knowing those 3 basic rules will allow you to shoot so the audience doesn't notice your shooting. It takes the camera out of the picture which is what you want to do. The 30 degree rule is simple. Between your long shot, medium shot and CU the angles (camera positioning) between shots should vary by at least 30 degrees...unless you want a jump cut impact on the audience. As you move in for the CU you are more inline with the eyes than you would be for the long shot. This brings the audience more into the scene. It makes it more intimate for them...they are part of the scene now. If your CU were shot from the side then your audience would feel some disconnect with the character. Plan your shots to impact the audience. Know why you are shooting every shot...otherwise why shoot it? You should be able to say why you are placing your camera wherever you place it. How does that position impact your audience?
 
I've heard of the rule but don't know of graphics anywhere.

Say you have your camera recording 2 actors in a 2-shot though. When you wanted to do the CU, you could keep the camera in the same spot and just zoom-in, but that's a little obvious to the audience and if there's a slight continuity error it's very noticeable. Also, this would usually put and actor's face in CU profile, which isn't always that great.

If you move the camera slightly around for a CU though, so you're seeing more of his face (say an over-the-shoulder shot shot) then the cut isn't quite as noticable and if there's any continuity error the audience doesn't pick it up easily because they're seeing the scene from a different angle now.

The "minimum" difference you'd want to have between the shots is 30 degrees. This isn't followed strictly as "punching in" (not moving the camera and just zooming in for a close-up) can be very effective as well so long as you know the audience will be more aware of the cut.
 
Also have a read regarding the Golden Ratio, which is another set of proportions (derived from architecture and very ancient) that can be useful in laying out your compositions.
 
Thanks! gonna try some of the 30 degrees tomorrow, since were shooting!
The Golden Ratio...lets see what can i find in the internet...
 
Wikipedia is your friend. They have a decent intro explanation there.

*edit* sorry pmark - didn't notice that you already hit on that.
 
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