Royal Camera - how i loathe thee...

A

absolut_wisted

New member
if only i'd heeded the warnings and nay-says..

do _not_ buy from these guys. unbelievably poor representation of their products and services.

details:

i placed an order for $3049.99 which was to include a dvx100a (ntsc) with all included accessories and an 'exectuve' package which included even more accessories, such as a tripod, 5 hour battery, 0.5x wide angle 72mm lens, and a few other things..

payment method was discussed and agreed upon: partial payment on one credit card, partial on another. (hey, sometimes you gotta exercise your options, even if it hurls you into debt)

long story short, i've been pillaged. received a package today after speaking to a rep five days ago. "your order will be shipped on the 25th," i was told. goodie. i ripped the box open and peered inside with the practiced, controlled giddyness you develop after your first few disappointing pre-teen xmas blowouts.

i received a 1200mAh battery instead of the promised 5 hour battery. that pissed me off. so did the bargain-basement looking 'power 2000 turbo charger'. but what _really_ pissed me off was the invoice slip. no camera. $1000 billed to a credit card with $800 available credit. serious overdraft fees soon to follow. no phone call prior to shipment of this crap - crap which i have no use for - informing me of a supposed 21 day waiting period for more dvx100a's.

bullshit. i spoke to a ridiculous man named "Tom" who sounded like Mohammed who attempted to sell me a new, improved dvx100ap, which is "superior to the 100a because it fixes all the horrible problems of the 100a." problems? he can ship this one for an $800 premium since it includes Magic Bullet, the apparent cure for cancer in the video world, but the a's will be another 3 weeks minimum.

i demand an RMA for the $1000 in accessories and he pleads with me to keep the accessories in an attempt to 'win my future business'. he apologizes for sending the wrong battery, vows to overnight a 5 hour one, and offers to refund my credit card $200 to rectify the overdraft issue. i refuse. he counters with $300. i refuse. he counters with $350. i accept.

i priced the executive package online and $650 is a fair price for the accessories i received. $1000 is not. needless to say, i will not be purchasing the 100a from them.


now my question(s) is this:

was this guy blowing smoke with his dvx100ap claim? i'm pretty sure i'd have heard about it since i'm a major forum lurker.

should i feel like a dipshit scuzzwad since i'm actually planning on keeping these accessories?

where can i get a brand new NTSC 100a for a good price without getting skull ****ed by a bunch of uninformed grease dogs with little regard for fellow humans and a gross lack of integrity? this is the third shameful excuse for a company that i've dealt with. the others are Radioactive Deals and Broadway Photo.
 
Re: Royal Camera - how i loathe thee...

That does suck. I feel for ya.

To answer your question (about the 100ap), the "p" stands for Panasonic its the NTSC version (DVX100p or DVX100ap). In Europe people receive the PAL version (DVX100e or DVX100ae). So the guy is lying to you. Panasonic has not released an upgrade to the dvx100ap/DVX100ae. If you ordered a 100a you would be getting a 100ap, because the 2 are 1 in the same.

Good luck and I hope it all works out for you.
P.K. Gillock
 
Re: Royal Camera - how i loathe thee...

Sorry, but they reeled you in like a Tuna :-/. You were never going to get a camera and they scammed you for the junk accessories. You should have disputed the charges with your credit card companies and sent the whole mess back to Royal (Scum). Consider it a lesson in life and get your DVX from EVS or B&H. Also, you're understandably pissed, but please watch the innuendo regarding nationality and/or religion.
 
Re: Royal Camera - how i loathe thee...

[quote author=Barry_S link=board=Offtopic;num=1101904215;start=0#2 date=12/01/04 at 07:03:25]please watch the innuendo regarding nationality and/or religion.[/quote]
Barry, why should he? If that's how he feels, let him say that. It's not aimed at a particular person. If his experience is similar to mine, he has all reasons to be suspicious of Middle Eastern/Muslim merchants (especially if they sound like that, masquerading behind English-sounding names). Granted, it's more part of a culture than nationality/religion, but let's not take the P.C. to extremes.

Absolut, I feel with you. I've had a similar experience in the past (with another vendor, though). I found that being a regular customer at a local brick & mortar store wins me discounts close to what you can find online, and dealing with people face to face is always better. I live in a large city, though... not everyone has that option. If mail order is the only way for you, think if the extra couple hundred you save by dealing with unproven sources is worth the hassle.

Jerry
 
Re: Royal Camera - how i loathe thee...

WOW. I can't believe you were also reeled in by broadway photo. Two words. Authorized Dealer. You avoid every headache you described by buying from a reputable company.

Check out http://www.resellerratings.com before you make any further purchases from companies.

You may be able to get a decent priced used 100 or 100A in the marketplace.

It's a hard lesson learned. :-/
 
Re: Royal Camera - how i loathe thee...

[quote author=absolut_wisted link=board=Offtopic;num=1101904215;start=0#0 date=12/01/04 at 04:30:15]

$650 is a fair price for the accessories i received[/quote]

Sorry, I don't know how to break this to you... :(

Not
 
Re: Royal Camera - how i loathe thee...

Jerry--are you back in town? I'd love to hear how your doc went. As far as absolut's "Mohammed" comment--it seemed a bit out of line and odd. What difference does the nationality or religion of the salesman make unless you're trying to implicate a group for the actions of an individual or store?--seems like stereotyping. I don't understand your comments though. Are you saying that Middle Eastern/Muslim merchants are part of a culture of business fraud? I've had a rainbow coalition of people try to scam me at one point or another. :)
 
Re: Royal Camera - how i loathe thee...

Call your credit card company now, get your money credited back! They probably have dealt with these folks before. Ask the credit card company what to do, they are usually accomodating. Tell the card company that you were lied to, etc.
 
Re: Royal Camera - how i loathe thee...

This guy tried to tell you that the "DVX100AP" fixes the horrible problems of the DVX100A?

That, simply put, is a crime.
 
Re: Royal Camera - how i loathe thee...

re: the supposed racial overtones: I think his comment was more geared toward the idea that someone who has that kind of an accent is probably not named "TOM".  It just adds to the feeling of being duped

And not to split hairs, but the 100AP is designed for North America.  There are 100A's (no P) that are NTSC, but designed for Japan.  A lot of gray market dealers buy those, ship through Canada and sell them here.  They work, nbut you have no warranty and they have not gotten the UL certification.  Sadly, you can guess how I know this...
 
Re: Royal Camera - how i loathe thee...

The real money is made for the vendors in the accessories, not the cameras. Many of these places sell the cameras super cheap and try to get you to tack on the accesories, which they sell at a premium and give you junk.

Stick to B&H or other credible resellers, they're worth the extra money.
 
Re: Royal Camera - how i loathe thee...

Exactly--the accessories are a huge windfall for these stores. The camera is just the bait. I'd agree with going ahead and call ing your credit card companies to dispute the charges. Unfortunately, you did come to an agreement for the accessories, but it was still a scam--so you have a reasonable position to dispute the transaction.
 
Re: Royal Camera - how i loathe thee...

[quote author=Barry_S link=board=Offtopic;num=1101904215;start=0#6 date=12/01/04 at 09:02:35]Jerry--are you back in town?  I'd love to hear how your doc went.[/quote]
Yes, I am back. It went 'well' - may need to go back for additional footage, but it's not because of lack of planning or poor scheduling - more like new facts that I didn't know about before. I've got about fifteen hours of footage, some pretty scary stuff, some just plaing gorgeous (I don't know if you can take anything else in Prague :) ).
seems like stereotyping.
Click to expand...
And what's wrong with that? Human race rises and falls with generalization and stereotyping. It's become politically incorrect but the truth is that our ability to draw generalizing conclusions from limited examples is responsible for most scientific and technological advances we've made through history. That sometimes those conclusions are/were wrong is another matter. You can't be 100% correct 100% of the time.

I don't understand your comments though.   Are you saying that Middle Eastern/Muslim merchants are part of a culture of business fraud?   I've had a rainbow coalition of people try to scam me at one point or another. :)  
Click to expand...
Sadly, the further East you go the more likely you get ripped off. Unfortunately, this also applies to my native country, it applies to Eastern Europe in general, and if people want to pretend that it doesn't apply to Middle East, they are simply ignoring the facts. Why do you think Middle Eastern governments are some of the most corrupt in the world? One of my best friends is Egyptian (and a lawyer, too), and the stuff he tells me about how 'business' gets done there is really interesting...

Of course there is plenty of scum here in North America, as there are plenty of honest people in Middle East. It's more due to legal and business environment than any inherent 'goodness' of people in the West, but on the other hand, business practices and law is also part of the culture, no?

I was just saying that if Absolut feels certain way, he should have the right to say it.

Interestingly, the essence of my doc is about exactly that - the courage to call things what they are. Today, fifteen years after the fall of communism in Eastern Europe, many people just shrug and say that 'those were the times', and refuse to face the facts and/or draw conclusions and make those responsible also accountable.
Were all communists bad? No. My mother-in-law was in the CP, and she never hurt anyone, nor did she use it to her advantage. But was the regime morally corrupt? Absolutely. Were they murdering innocent people just because they had opposing opinions? You bet. Were they using slave labour to supply Soviet nuclear weapons with Czech uranium? You can guess...

Maybe it's stereotypical to call communism a murderous regime because so many people survived and didn't get murdered... :'(

Well, one of the rules of this board is not to discuss politics, so I will stop right here... ;)

To change gears: How did your shoot with Jenee go? I'd love to see some more grabs! When do you think the video will be done? And... when is a good day to get together for a drink or something? Give me a shout.

Jerry
 
Re: Royal Camera - how i loathe thee...

That's too bad. To be honest, I'll be suprised if the lens you got is actually 72mm. It might say it, but you won't know for sure until you mount it.
 
Re: Royal Camera - how i loathe thee...

[quote author=absolut_wisted link=board=Offtopic;num=1101904215;start=0#0 date=12/01/04 at 04:30:15]if only i'd heeded the warnings and nay-says..

now my question(s) is this:  

was this guy blowing smoke with his dvx100ap claim?  i'm pretty sure i'd have heard about it since i'm a major forum lurker.

[/quote]

That sucks man...If you had been a DVXuser.com forum lurker this surely wouldn't have happened...I ALMOST had the same thing happen, from the same people and the fellers here saved my hide...Luckily because if it did I would have swallowed 37 asprins and downed a bottle of Wild Turkey. j/k
 
Re: Royal Camera - how i loathe thee...

Sadly, and I mean SADLY, I still see people that have been on the board more then ten minutes still consider these "great" deals. :-[

I think it's just a case of wanting something to be true so bad you get blinded. :-/
 
Re: Royal Camera - how i loathe thee...

Jerry--your response is long and interesting, but the most interesting part is getting together for a drink-- :) I'll call you.
 
Re: Royal Camera - how i loathe thee...

i haven't figured out the quoting function yet so bear with me. i received a lot of wonderful feedback on my dealings with Royal (Scum), as Barry so succinctly puts it.

the 'Tom who sounded like Mohammed' was just a way of further augmenting my numerous qualms with Scum Inc. this company exercises a sadistic business sense in an attempt to mislead customers like myself (the dvx100a vs. dvx100ap thing, the intentional misbillings, the lack of honest disclosure) and the fact that i spoke to two different 'managers' with the names Tom and Richard, and also a secretary who didn't even know who Tom was until i reminded her he was her manager, just adds to the sickly royal cauldron that belongs in a stuffy medieval dungeon somewhere.

it's another way of expressing how jacked around I feel.

and Mickeloaf, I do plan on phoning my credit card company to remove the charges and taking a $45 hit for return shipment of this prepackaged value package.

I figured there was no profit margin in cameras with these guys but took the bait because I'd be getting the camera _and_ a ton of accessories for the same price I'd be getting just the camera at the more reputable places...

...that and I've been positively smitten in an indescribably fanatical way ever since I first laid eyes on the DVX. :P


i'm overwhelmed by the quality of responses i received and _really_ appreciate it. i think i'll enjoy participating henceforth.
 
Re: Royal Camera - how i loathe thee...

I'm Authorized! :)

Sorry for your luck Absolut, :( but if you haven't been completely turned off buying gear at this point, you can shoot me an email at rush@evsonline.com and I will give you the DVXuser discount. Just to help you out with your dilemma, I will give you free shipping. I never do that, as it costs me $35 to Fedex a camera usually, but I feel for you man. I went through the whole "great deal" at a photo-dealer advertising in a Photo mag about 3 years ago, before I started working at EVS. Even after I got three different prices from three different sales reps, I still fell for it, with promise of luxury line cruises and such ;D Oh well, once bitten... Believe me, what does not kill you only makes you a smarter DVXuser. :D
 
Re: Royal Camera - how i loathe thee...

:D

Rush and I worked out a huge order for me last week. Top notch service. I never deal with any other shop unless absolutely necesary.
 
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