Rode NTG-2 and XHA1 unhappy results

[aroo]

Hi guys,
I just have done a birthday party and I am not happy with sound results. First voice level was very low and I had to increased sound level to max on my XHA1 to get medium sound level. Is it normal? The final results seams to be far away from professional sound. Sound is flat and no much bass recorded. When I kept mic 3m away from people I recorded more ambient voices rather than their talks. For interviews I used normal vocal mic without any battery and sound was much louder and better than rode even ambient sounds were recorded louder and with better quality. Can you share your experience with me as I don't know maybe my mic is faulty?
Please help

 

[DavidNJ]

First, did you have the high pass filter (a switch on the mic) on? That would account for the bass.

Second, using a hyper cardioid mic inside in a crowded room will likely produce very directional and and some unwanted noise.

Third, did you double check the phantom voltage, line vs mic, and gain settings? It sounds like it may have been on a line setting. I believe it is typical that the maximum amplification of a line signal brings it to the low end of a mic signal.

 

[MattinSTL]

3M... three meters as in 9 FEET?

I'm bummed at all the thread titles that blame gear for operator error... it's unfair to the manufacturer to have all these threads calling a perfectly fine tool crap for the archives. I like that we now show post count... because this type of thread is often a very first post... it's happened now with the NTG-3, here the NT2, and with the blimp...

First tip (if this thread is legit...) you don't use any mic 9' away from somebody and expect great sound... second tip... mics pick up the loudest sounds first... a shotgun pattern gives some control of this, but it's not a laser beam... unless everybody else in the room shuts up while you're shooting the person you want to hear... you'll hear everybody else in the room.

OK now hold on a minute while I go into the Canon forum on another board and post that the XHA1 is a piece of crap because I left the lens cap on.

It's a good thing I'm not a mod or I'd change the titles of these threads to something like (in this case)... "RODE NTG-2 and XHA1 Question"... Just like I wouldn't have let somebody put a thread title in the archives that bashes the sound-room for delaying his mic by a few days, etc. etc. Making titles that directly bash a product or business, when you really just have a question about YOUR USE of that product... or your exception to the norm... is just uncool.

 

[DavidNJ]

Just a newbie question, learning the ropes. Didn't we all do that at one point? I remember a nasty evening using a wireless dynamic mic to a little camcorder with a 3.5mm stereo input. I tested with headphones but couldn't use them all evening. Some time mid evening it lost the sound. Lots of unusable footage. Or another where the DP didn't reset the white balance all afternoon (I had a 101° fever). Or the next day when he got ready and recording confused (I was on more medication that I can remember). Stuff happens and we learn.

 

[MattinSTL]

My point is this: The nature of the internet, combined with the short attention span of people... means that titling a post with a negative connotation towards a product or company... when it's just a matter of not knowing how to use the product... is uncool.

So you have google returning things like "horrible experience at Sound Room" when in fact, Paul went above and beyond to help the guy... and in the end the guy's happy, but a google search still returns something bad.

In this case... I suspect that yes, it's mic vs. line... or some other operator error, since automatically we know that 9' away from the subject for mic'ing in a crowded room already says something about experience. I'm probably jumping the gun here... but if your very first post in a new forum is a general complaint about a specific product... I'd rather see a title that gives the product the benefit of the doubt... otherwise I question the motive.

No matter what... if anybody else has this problem the question is now answered... but I'm just venting as I've seen a bunch of threads like this pop up... with titles that specifically name a product or company and then include something like "problems" or "unhappy"... or whatever... and I think some of this is conscious weed seeding for google.

 

[Noiz2]

Second, using a hyper cardioid mic inside in a crowded room will likely produce very directional and and some unwanted noise.

The TNG-2 is a shotgun not a hyper cardioid, I think that is what you meant to say.

And I completely agree on the Heading thing. 99.9% of posts that have some trashy comment bout a specific product are BS. They are mostly people who misused a product and a few are just on a personal vengeance mission for some perceived wrong.

 

[Steve House]

Higuys,
I just have done a birthday party and I am not happy with sound results. First voice level was very low and I had to increased sound level to max on my XHA1 to get medium sound level. Is it normal? The final results seams to be far away from professional sound. Sound is flat and no much bass recorded. When I kept mic 3m away from people I recorded more ambient voices rather than their talks. For interviews I used normal vocal mic without any battery and sound was much louder and better than rode even ambient sounds were recorded louder and with better quality. Can you share your experience with me as I don't know maybe my mic is faulty?
Please help

Sounds like your problem stems from a (commonly held) mis-belief that a shotgun mic is like a telephoto lens for sound that focuses on and maginfys distant sounds. It doesn't do that - no mic does. 3 metres (10 feet) is far, far too distant for good pickup. A short 'gun like the NTG-2 has an optimum working distance of somewhere around 24 to 30 inches from the subject, even 1 metre is pushing the envelope in other than a quiet environment. 10 feet is out of the question, even on an acoustically treated soundstage.

 

[aroo]

Hi ,
I would like to apologise that I put comment “unhappy” but I was very disappointed with results. I am not pro sound engineer and I don’t know the whole knowledge about microphones and I thought that shotgun microphones which have gained signal (battery) pick the sound much better than dynamic microphones and that shotgun mics are designed to eliminate side sounds for better front picks. I did set my mic correctly and I had the input switched to mic not line. If shotgun microphones pick the sound from that short distance what microphone should I use for events like concerts or birthday parties to get the best results? I have seen lots of very good results with NTG-2 on Vimeo and I want the same results! I just ask for help not to destroy the Rode NTG-2 reputation

 

[Steve House]

Hi ,
I would like to apologise that I put comment “unhappy” but I was very disappointed with results. I am not pro sound engineer and I don’t know the whole knowledge about microphones and I thought that shotgun microphones which have gained signal (battery) pick the sound much better than dynamic microphones and that shotgun mics are designed to eliminate side sounds for better front picks. I did set my mic correctly and I had the input switched to mic not line. If shotgun microphones pick the sound from that short distance what microphone should I use for events like concerts or birthday parties to get the best results? I have seen lots of very good results with NTG-2 on Vimeo and I want the same results! I just ask for help not to destroy the Rode NTG-2 reputation

First a technical note. The battery is NOT for amplifier gain as you are using the term. ALL condensor microphones require power for their internal electronics. That comes either from external phantom power supplied to them or (for some mics) an internal battery. While condensor mics in general are often more sensitive than dynamics, it's not the presence of the battery that does that. The power is not to make the signal louder or to make the mic more sensitive - it's to make the mic work in the first place and without it, the mic won't work at all.

You are correct that shotgun mics are designed for reduced sensitivity from the sides and rear compared to dead-ahead. But that's a relative reduction, not a complete absence of side response all together. And also remember that ambient noise coming from BEHIND your subject is dead-on within the mic's zone of highest sensitivity. If the mic is at eye level in front of the subject, as it is when mounted on or held beside a camera, it's pointed straight at those distracting sound sources. Best position is boomed high in front of the subject so the mic sees empty ground behind him, second best position is held low in front pointed up at the subject so the mic sees empty sky behind his head.

You're also right that directional condensor mics are designed for farther distances than dynamic mics. But your perception of what those distances are is totally off base. Dynamic vocal mics are usually designed for a working distance of about 2 to 3 cm (6 to 8 inches) from the mouth. Your problem was that you're thinking of 3 metres (10 feet) as being a short distance - as far as mics (of any sort) are concerned that's actually an incredibly HUGE distance. A short shotgun like the NTG-2, when used to capture speech, needs to be held about 60cm (24 inches) from the subject - that can stretch a bit to perhaps 1 metre if the environment is very quiet. Around 60cm to a tad more is usually optimum. You said you were trying to use it at over 5 times that distance - it's no wonder you're disappointed! And as an aside, that's not related to the mic's quality - you'd have the same dissappointing experience with a $2000 Schoeps CMIT shotgun as you did with the $250 Rode if you used it in the same way.

For the best quality sound there is absolutely NO substitute for getting the mic off of the camera and up close and personal iwth the subject. None!

 

[DavidNJ]

Steve, first you can probably change the title my modifying your first post.

Second, you may want to try posting a link to the video you referenced here; someone may look at it and provide feedback. You can also contact the poster on vimeo vie a message there and see how they configured their mic.

I find a shotgun too strong indoors. I have a stand mounted boom and run an ME64 pointed down, about 2-4' feet above the subjects. To low and it can accidently drift into the frame. The ME64 is an electret condenser cardiod mic. I also have an ME66 electret condsenser shotgun.

Indoors there is a foam cover on the small condenser mic. Outdoors there is rabbit fur on the shotgun. With out the cover, wind noise in the shotgun seems unmanageable.

Note, this is the pattern for your mic, the angle is quite wide:

 

[Steve House]

Steve, first you can probably change the title my modifying your first post.

Second, you may want to try posting a link to the video you referenced here; someone may look at it and provide feedback. You can also contact the poster on vimeo vie a message there and see how they configured their mic.

I find a shotgun too strong indoors. I have a stand mounted boom and run an ME64 pointed down, about 2-4' feet above the subjects. To low and it can accidently drift into the frame. The ME64 is an electret condenser cardiod mic. I also have an ME66 electret condsenser shotgun.

Indoors there is a foam cover on the small condenser mic. Outdoors there is rabbit fur on the shotgun. With out the cover, wind noise in the shotgun seems unmanageable.

Note, this is the pattern for your mic, the angle is quite wide:

It's interesting that the pattern for the Rode mics are atypical shotguns, lacking the lobes aft of abeam that 'guns usually have. This more closely resembles a hypercardioid with perhaps a bit more inflated rear lobe. That wide pattern you note is at 500 Hz and 1 kHz, narrowing down at 4 kHz. This is consistent with a line-gradient mic, some of which get almost omni down in the bass regions. As guns go, the Rode is a bit better behaved indoors than most, probably because those aforementioned lobes at 100 and 140 degrees are missing. A quick glance of the ME66 pattern shows similar wide response at 2 kHz and lower, in fact, it's wider. The 1 kHz -10 dB point for the Rode is at 75 degrees while the Sennheiser -10 dB point doesn't happen until 90 degrees off-axis.

 

[J Davis]

The rode or any good mic will sound bad if you are relying on the mic pre amp built within the XHA1. (or any camera's mic preamp in this camera range or below).

If you can, run some tests by getting the audio to line level before you go into the camera you might be quite surprised. The NTG2 is a very good mic for its price and its audio is awesome.

Some cheap solutions to get a line level is a beachtek for about $170 but there are plenty of other better quality mic pre's and mixers out there. If you can, power the NTG2 with 48v phantom power. This improves the audiio slightly better than using the battery, but remember the biggest improvement is going to line level.

FYI – I use and recommend the sound devices MM1 which also provides phantom. It costs about $350.