Replacing my XH A1 + Blade with what?

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David Evans

Well-known member
Hi,

Not sure if this is the right place to post this, but I couldn't find a better one... I'm a filmmaker and I direct, essentially, fiction.


Since 2008, I've been filming with a Canon XH A1 + SGblade + Nikon 35mm lenses combo.

Advantages:

- Organic feel of the image (compared to the stripped Canon XH A1)
- Shallow DOF

Disadvantages that've come to annoy me:

- Focus depends of three different things: the camera must focus on the SGblade and the SgBlade must be properly collimated to the lens and lens must be properly focused... Sometimes I can't get a decent focus...

- It's huge!!

- Still records to tape

- Codec compression doesn't leave any headroom for some serious CC...


So, given this, I've decided it's time to move on and sell my very first camera and 35mm adapter and get a new, more modern one. I wanted to get some advice on what to get (let's keep things in the 2.500 eur borderline). I already own a tripod, audio recorder, microphones, external monitor, steady cam (which I can't use with my current rig because it's too damn heavy)...

Some cameras that caught my attention:

1 - Blackmagic Pocket Camera - I know the audio sucks, but to the price, it seems unbeatable!! It tapes on RAW (very important to me!). Will all of my money go to SSD cards, though?

2 - Digital Boulex D16 - This seems like a winner all the way, though it's much more expensive than the BMPCC...


My most valued criteria (in order):

1 - Must record on RAW!
2 - Cinematic camera
3 - Sharpness of the image.
4 - Low light capabilities
5 - Portability.
6 - It would be great to be able to use my old Nikon 35mm lenses.


Looking forward for your advices, experience and help!

Thanks
 
Having owned 4 different cameras which shoot raw video, I guess my biggest question would be, why do you feel a camera which shoots raw should be your highest concern?

Just asking.
 
David W. Jones said:
Having owned 4 different cameras which shoot raw video, I guess my biggest question would be, why do you feel a camera which shoots raw should be your highest concern?

Just asking.
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This. The XH A1 was such a strong, reliable camera. I don't consider either of the cameras you mentioned as options that will last you as long as the XH did, even if they do offer some flavor of RAW.

p.s. I loved my XH A1 + Letus combo. I imagine it sings on the Blade as well.
 
David W. Jones said:
Having owned 4 different cameras which shoot raw video, I guess my biggest question would be, why do you feel a camera which shoots raw should be your highest concern?

Just asking.
Click to expand...

Because I like to do a lot of CC in post, and everytime I do it with my current rig, the image deteriorates fast. I either get the image I want "in camera" or if I need to do it in post, I'm screwed. I guess what I'm saying is I need a camera more suitable for cinema with all that it demands.

And I'm sick of having to focus three different pieces of equipment to be able to focus on the final image. Sometimes we're in the middle of a scene, and I'm looking at the monitor with the DP and we're both struggling to get the image in focus...
 
I've shot plenty with an XH A1. It was a nice camera but I've barely touched it in a couple years. I got a much nicer image out of a GH1 or 2 and even preferred the look of a Canon 60D to it. The BMPCC is high on my list for my next personal purchase though I shoot with a C100mkII at work now.
The concerns I have about the BMPCC is that it starts cheap but really needs to be decked out. Power, fast memory cards, lenses (or in your case perhaps a Nikon speed booster) and probably a better LCD screen. That could all add up kind of quick.
It's not going to be a low light champ as far as I can tell, but neither was the XH A1. A speed booster and fast primes will help but then you're dealing with a shallower DOF just for exposure and using what is often the worst aperture range on the lens, unless it's an expensive lens. But you are getting raw and ProRes options.

You might consider a Nikon D750 or even their newly announced D500 that can do UHD. nikon video quality has gotten a lot better and both have tilt screens and 60fps 1080p shooting aside from 24fps, plus clean HDMI outs but no raw. You could even go with a magic lantern enabled 5DmkIII and use a F mount adapter on it for manual lenses. That will give you raw and Canon color with a full frame sensor.

EDIT: If you don't mind not getting full 1080p but close to it, you could go for a used 5DmkII instead of III. Stilll get raw with Magic Lantern but save some bucks. It will just be more prone to moire issues.
 
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David Evans said:
Because I like to do a lot of CC in post, and everytime I do it with my current rig, the image deteriorates fast. I either get the image I want "in camera" or if I need to do it in post, I'm screwed. I guess what I'm saying is I need a camera more suitable for cinema with all that it demands...
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Cameras have come a long way since your XH-A1 was released.

Raw video is very flexible in post, but uncompressed raw video takes up a huge amount of storage. Just saying you might also want to budget for more storage space. As well as camera media. Download some uncompressed raw video and play with it to see if you're computer is up to task before you jump in with both feet. Computer and storage up to spec, then rent the raw camera you are thinking about buying.

As a side, a good low cost camera that looks really good for the price would be a GH4 along with a Nikon mount SpeedBooster so you can use you current lenses.

Good luck!
 
Trust me there is a huge landscape of cameras that will completely floor you in terms of image quality and flexibility compared to your rig between 100+MBps RAW and 3MBps HDV... You definitely don't NEED raw to improve over you xha1. And raw is not always (or even often) worth the workflow headaches.

Personally I'd say probably look no further than the Sony a7sii.
 
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nyvz said:
Trust me there is a huge landscape of cameras that will completely floor you in terms of image quality and flexibility compared to your rig between 100+MBps RAW and 3MBps HDV... You definitely don't NEED raw to improve over you xha1. And raw is not always (or even often) worth the workflow headaches.

Personally I'd say probably look no further than the Sony a7sii.
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coming from someone who's been shooting straight out of canon h264 I can def empathize with the op. I was looking at Sony and gh4 but when you're starting to look fwd to shooting something bigger. Something that may show on a big screen the compressed formats of all these cameras is a little scary. Scary in the sense that will their compressed file types be able to handle a decent grade and what will they look like on a larger screen? imo no, you will then need a shogun or ninja to allow for a more versatile format. Then at that point aren't we better off just going with a bmcc, or an ursa mini or something like that? Correct me if I'm off base here but that's what I'm getting from the initial question posted.
 
I guess the best advice I can give would be.... Be honest with yourself, and know your needs!

In my case, I don't shoot feature length movies which get projected at movie theaters. The majority of my work is quick turn broadcast where ProRes is the norm, and I don't know of too many episodical TV series shooting raw due to budget and time constraints. Same with lower cost TV commercial projects I do. For larger budget regional and national spots we will shoot 16-bit linear raw with the F65, but almost always use raw-lite due to file size, and the fact that you can't really tell the difference when viewed. In the case of the Pocket camera, even shooting compressed raw DNG files takes up a huge amount of space. As an example, a 64GB SD card will only hold 15min of footage. So you will need 4 of them to equal a single 1 hour HDV tape you have been using with your XH-A1. Power is also something to think about using the pocket camera, where a typical battery gives between 20min-50min depending on use. My point being that the overall low purchase price gets quickly eroded by all the extras you will truly need.

All the best!

Dave
 
Based on your needs, I would say the best affordable camera for you would be a Canon 5D MKIII with Magic lantern. MagicLantern hacks allow you to record either RAW or H.264 at 90mbps. On the other hand, BlackMagic cameras record in RAW and Prores and have more dynamic range which equates to more highlight and shadow detail, but they're not that great in lowlight, so Canon wins in that department.
 
Imamacuser said:
Based on your needs, I would say the best affordable camera for you would be a Canon 5D MKIII with Magic lantern. MagicLantern hacks allow you to record either RAW or H.264 at 90mbps. On the other hand, BlackMagic cameras record in RAW and Prores and have more dynamic range which equates to more highlight and shadow detail, but they're not that great in lowlight, so Canon wins in that department.
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I don't have too much of a problem with the Pocket and 'low light'... this one was shot at ISO 1600... don't mind the digital 'grain' at all...


23159506820_7bdba634e6_z.jpg
 
Imamacuser said:
Based on your needs, I would say the best affordable camera for you would be a Canon 5D MKIII with Magic lantern..
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Any of the cameras mentioned are great tools. But the 5DkIII shoots uncompressed raw taking up even more storage space than the Pocket Camera, only recording 24min per 128B card, and the CF medium needed is more expensive than the SD cards for the Pocket Camera.
 
Great info from everyone, thanks! I also realized, that it'd be great if this new camera would also take good photographs. This way it'd a 2 in 1 and I could replace my old DSLR as well. And so, considering that, I would say a DSLR would be perfect. I have Nikon lenses, but I guess there is not a good Nikon for movie shooting, right? So, what are the best DSLR for movie making?

Canon 5dmkiii would be a perfect candidate but I've read that is not the sharpest of cameras... In digital video, sharp images is so important! The only thing that worries me is the rolling shutter thing that I never had to worry, owning a camcorder such as the XH A1. Anything other DSLR's out there that really excel in video?

GH4 a good option?

Thanks for all the help!
 
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David Evans said:
Great info from everyone, thanks! I also realized, that it'd be great if this new camera would also take good photographs. This way it'd a 2 in 1 and I could replace my old DSLR as well. And so, considering that, I would say a DSLR would be perfect. I have Nikon lenses, but I guess there is not a good Nikon for movie shooting, right? So, what are the best DSLR for movie making?

Canon 5dmkiii would be a perfect candidate but I've read that is not the sharpest of cameras... In digital video, sharp images is so important! The only thing that worries me is the rolling shutter thing that I never had to worry, owning a camcorder such as the XH A1. Anything other DSLR's out there that really excel in video?

GH4 a good option?

Thanks for all the help!
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All DSLRs are pretty ropy when it comes to rolling shutter. The Sony A7 series are a joke for rolling shutter and no DSLR has anything like good ergonomics. You might do better to look at the Sony FS700 before a DSLR. There seems to be quite a good secondhand market which you could pick up a bargain.

I've no idea what your budget is but the best value real camera is the Sony FS7. You can use you nikkor glass on the FS700 and FS7 with an adapter and get the full frame look with a focal reducer.
 
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Sony FS7 is realllyyyy above what I wanted to spend, but maybe the FS700 on the secondhand market is at my reach. How does it compare with a Blackmagic Pocket Camera with the Speed Booster (let's forget about audio) ?
 
David Evans said:
Great info from everyone, thanks! I also realized, that it'd be great if this new camera would also take good photographs. This way it'd a 2 in 1 and I could replace my old DSLR as well. And so, considering that, I would say a DSLR would be perfect. I have Nikon lenses, but I guess there is not a good Nikon for movie shooting, right? So, what are the best DSLR for movie making?

Canon 5dmkiii would be a perfect candidate but I've read that is not the sharpest of cameras... In digital video, sharp images is so important! The only thing that worries me is the rolling shutter thing that I never had to worry, owning a camcorder such as the XH A1. Anything other DSLR's out there that really excel in video?

GH4 a good option?

Thanks for all the help!
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I think from what I've read, and participated in a couple of shoots with Canons... if you want a 'all in one', then probably the 5D MKIII is pretty well attested. Another Canon that was used on a couple of projects I've participated in, was the Canon C100.

But for me... for the price of the Canon + Lenses, since you say you are currently in the Nikon camp, you'd probably do better with a D610 or perhaps D7200, and a Pocket.

That essentially is my situation... For all 'motion picture' capture I look to the Pocket, for stills it would be the D600, the Wife's camera, (previous model to the D610... not much difference...) or I just bought a D7200 for what I need to do with a still camera. The D7200 is a DX sensor so it has more DoF than the D600 which is a Full Frame sensor, for equivalent Angle of Views.

'Sharpness' is a combination of lens, shooting conditions(lighting, amount of lighting, contrast of lighting, subject... etc.), and how one prepares the presented media... as in using a 'sharpening' filter in the final output, tuned for the ultimate viewing environment (big screen or smart phone... etc...).
 
roxics said:
Maybe you missed my post where I mentioned the D750 or D500.
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Right! But I guess dslrs are not the best for movie making because of the rolling shutter. I guess the blackmagics are starting to look like the strongest candidates. Either that or jump 5k on my budget...
 
leteeci said:
If you have time wait for BMMCC .. global shutter.. pair it with speedbooster..
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The micro cinema camera? Isn't that out already? At least the studio where i'll be renting the cinema camera, also has the micro. Isn't that essentially like a better gopro, designed for action stuff?
 
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