Removing Black Bars in Widescreen Frame

Chris Messineo

Chris Messineo

Veteran
We shot our film with the widescreen mode. So it is actually 4:3 ratio but there is a black bar at the top and bottom of the frame.

My question is, should I keep it like this for output or should I remove the black bars at the top and the bottom so it is a true widescreen picture.

I think I should be doing the second one. If that is the case though, what is the best way to remove those black bars. I have over 100 clips and wonder if FCP has an easy way to do this or do I have to manually do this to every clip?

Thanks,

Chris
 
Re: Removing Black Bars in Widescreen Frame

Leave it as is... removing the bars does nothing for you at all. Well that's not entirely true, there are a few instances where it could make a difference.

What is your final output going to be?
 
Re: Removing Black Bars in Widescreen Frame

My final output will be DVD, but if I don't remove the black bars won't that mean that wide screen tv's will get the bars on the top as well as bars on the left and right?

Chris
 
Re: Removing Black Bars in Widescreen Frame

Hum? Not totally sure what will happen there. Think about it though.... removing the bars isn't adding any information to your footage, it's definately not increasing the resolution to fit a 16x9 television if that's what you are thinking.

I'm always in favor of "quality" rather than size or aspect ratio. If the video looks best with bars all the way around (I do understand though, the thought of it does kinda suck huh?) that's how I would leave it.

Interesting issue though.... little trial and error I guess. Try going to DVD with a sample clip and testing how it looks/ plays on various setups.

Let us know what you find!!!

I might have to create a little project to test this out myself.
 
Re: Removing Black Bars in Widescreen Frame

oh by the way.... If you want widescreen footage... squeeze mode rocks!!!!
 
Re: Removing Black Bars in Widescreen Frame

Right -- here's what you'll need to do.  This will degrade your quality slightly.  I've used it a few times and it works very well.

Create a new sequence in your browser.
Apple-Zero it and click the anamorphic button.
Drop your old sequence in.
Right click to open it up in the Viewer.  
Click the motion tab drop down Distort
Change Aspect Ratio to 33.33
Change size to 133

Render!!

There you go.

When you are building your DVD, (especially if you use DVDSP) let it tell the TV what it should force... letterbox for 4.3 and as is for 16.9.

Good luck,

CaptM
 
Re: Removing Black Bars in Widescreen Frame

CaptM,

That sounds perfect thanks.

Although it sounds like in the future I should be shooting squueze mode and I wouldn't have this problem (if I understand correctly).

Chris
 
Re: Removing Black Bars in Widescreen Frame

I use Compressor to "up-rez" my 1.78:1 flat-letterbox footage to 16x9 anamorphic. It does a better job dealing with the vertical line expansion than FCP.
Just open presets, select the Mpeg2 setting you would like to use and then set the top and bottom crop to "61," set the output to 16x9, and then "Save as a copy" and add "4x3 crop to 16x9 anamorph" to the name.
You can then compress 16x9 and 4x3 MPEG2 streams for DVD SP, and author your DVD to automatically select the correct one (I can send you the script that checks the SPRM if you don't know how.)
 
Re: Removing Black Bars in Widescreen Frame

CaptainMench said:
Now THAT's cool. *Please send or post the script.

Thanks

CaptM
Click to expand...

OK. DVD players hold data that refers to your personal DVD preferences in SPRM memory. The full list is in the DVD Studio Pro manual somewhere, but we're only interested in one value. SPRM 14 holds the info for what type of TV you have told your DVD player you have. There are actually 4 possible settings: 0=4x3 full screen, 256=Pan & Scan, 512=4x3 letterbox, and 3072=16x9.

Basically, what you need to do is just write a script that queries the DVD player's SPRM 14 for the setting, and then play the appropriate stream. Of course, playing a 16x9 stream when the DVD player is set to 4x3 letterbox, will allow the DVD player to squeeze the video itself into letterbox. This is how most Hollywood DVDs do it, because you only have to encode the film once. However, when you have shot flat letterbox on the DVX-100 (not 'A') then it is better to present the original instead of the unsquuezed and squeezed back version!


The steps in DVD Studio Pro 2:

GPRMs hold your script's variables. So the first thing the script should do it tell the DVD player to move (copy) the value from SPRM 14 into GPRM A.
script1.jpg


Next, just compare the value that is now in GPRM 'A' with the first possible value of "0" - if it equals"0" (4x3) then jump to the 4x3 track.
script2.jpg


Now do the same for values 256 & 512. For a value of 3072, jump to the 16x9 track.
script3.jpg

For good measure, add a command at the end that tells the DVD to jump to the 16x9 track. (Just incase something screws up and the value doesn't equal any of those numbers.)

Your finished script should look like this:
script4.jpg


Good luck.

Tim
 
Re: Removing Black Bars in Widescreen Frame

Here I was, about to post a query as to how to turn my 4:3 letterboxed video into an anamorphic DVD and then I find wonderfully specific instructions on how to do just this. Gotta love this forum!

Thanks, Dashwood! Incredibly helpful tips :)
 
Re: Removing Black Bars in Widescreen Frame

me too... except I wanted to ask just the opposite. if I shot with ana- then what should I export it into? 16:9 720? and then if I wanted to make a DVD where it's final output was letterboxed 4:3 (today's DVDs), how do I create black bars from a true 16:9 onto 4:3 space. I make it sound more complicated than what it is, but you all know where I'm getting at.
I ask because I'm not ready to output to native 16:9 yet. i have no use for them.

thank you very much, g'day.
 
Re: Removing Black Bars in Widescreen Frame

[quote author=DvPixl link=board=FCP;num=1089835107;start=0#11 date=07/15/04 at 21:11:32]me too... except I wanted to ask just the opposite. if I shot with ana- then what should I export it into? 16:9 720? and then if I wanted to make a DVD where it's final output was letterboxed 4:3 (today's DVDs), how do I create black bars from a true 16:9 onto 4:3 space. I make it sound more complicated than what it is, but you all know where I'm getting at.
 I ask because I'm not ready to output to native 16:9 yet. i have no use for them..[/quote]

You shot squeezed on the DVX100A ? That's perfect... just leave it as 16x9. Compress it to Mpeg2 as it is, and the DVD player will letterbox it for you when it is played on a 4x3 screen. DVD SP should automatically know that the file is 16x9, but make sure to double check. No scripts needed.
 
Re: Removing Black Bars in Widescreen Frame

What if you only have IDVD and want to make an anamorphic video that will fit into 4:3? Is there anything that can be done or do I need to wait until I have saved up for DVD SP?
 
Re: Removing Black Bars in Widescreen Frame

[quote author=Kyle_of_Maryland link=board=FCP;num=1089835107;start=0#13 date=07/15/04 at 22:43:14]What if you only have IDVD and want to make an anamorphic video that will fit into 4:3? Is there anything that can be done or do I need to wait until I have saved up for DVD SP?[/quote]

In some other threads, we have come to the conclusion that iDVD does not support 16x9 anamorphic. You should check out this thread:
http://www.dvxuser.com/cgi-bin/DVX2/YaBB.pl?board=FCP;action=display;num=1088487091;start=6#6

The simple way to make a 4x3 "flat" 1.78:1 letterbox version of your 16x9 anamorphic sequence is to create a new sequence that is 4x3 and just drag your 16x9 sequence (clear the in and outs first) from the bin into the timeline of the empty 4x3 sequence. You will now see a nest of you original sequence (a single clip), and it is squuezed down to the correct aspect ratio with black letterbox on the top and bottom. Now just export this sequence as a Quicktime and use it in iDVD.

Tim
 
Re: Removing Black Bars in Widescreen Frame

that would be the nitty gritty way if you're working on idvd. fact is, it doesn't matter how you do it. one takes longer or shorter than all the others. thanks dashwood for that bit. didn't realize how smart our dvd players were nowadays.

oh wait. you're talking about anamorphic. plus squeezed? actually, I dont have 100a. i have original. with anamorphic. so no camera squeeze...which squeeze are you talking about?
...essentially the same thing isn't it? am I missing something here?
 
dvpixl said:
that would be the nitty gritty way if you're working on idvd. fact is, it doesn't matter how you do it. one takes longer or shorter than all the others. thanks dashwood for that bit. didn't realize how smart our dvd players were nowadays.

oh wait. you're talking about anamorphic. plus squeezed? actually, I dont have 100a. i have original. with anamorphic. so no camera squeeze...which squeeze are you talking about?
...essentially the same thing isn't it? am I missing something here?
Click to expand...

They both create anamorphic footage that looks squeezed on a 4:3 and right on 16X9 monitor. Difference is Squeeze = something like 340 lines of horizontal rez however and anamorphic adaptor is a little over 500 horizontal line over less horizontal space than a full 4:3 image.
 
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