Remote Phosphor Lighting, which one?

Grug

Grug

Veteran
Hi guys,


Like many here I'm very excited about the possibilities of remote phosphor LED lighting (great colour, great output, low wattage, battery powering).


But with no local stockists, I'm unable to have a proper look at either of the two current options; namely, the Cineo Trucolor LS and HS models, and the BBS Area 48 (if anyone knows of other brands options that are available at the moment please let me know!).


As far as I can tell the Trucolor LS and the Area 48 should be roughly similar in output, I believe the Area 48 draws 160w and the Trucolor 150w (though don't quote me on that the specs are buried kinda deep for both products) but I can't find consistent photometrics for both to compare them properly. The Trucolor HS has a much higher output obviously, but it's also in a much higher price bracket.


The Trucolor is cheaper, but has a separate ballast; and the Area 48 is a little more expensive but you can clip a battery right on the back of it to keep the unit self-contained.


If anyone's had a chance to see both lights (at a trade show or elsewhere) I'd love to hear your thoughts.


Cheers
 
The cheaper model at just under $4000(US) looks on paper to be a great product. In fact, I thought the same about the Arri Fresnels, and when I got to try them, they were excellent. I still cannot, however, contemplate spending camera style money on ONE light source. Looking at my existing lighting kit, they're beat up - scratched, dented, covered in tape - because they're high up on stands, and people trip on cables and down they come - or they even get blown over. Add the times they've been rained on and accidentally abused, and for me the idea of spending this kind of money on a product makes no financial sense. If my business had a higher turnover and less down time, then maybe I could justify them, but I still buy 1K tungsten Fresnels when I smash yet another! A $200 LED light source that had good colorimetry would be great, but spending 15 to 20 times that is out of the question. It's fine for the big studios with more permananet installtions, and probably ok for hire companies - but for me it's pointless. I can get good results from old technology. I hate being the pioneers of new technology - as in beta testers paying retail and doing the testing work for free. Cheap LED quality light is a long way off.
 
Remote phosphor doesn't have to be out-of-reach expensive. It is a relatively new concept but it is still powered by leds ( blue ones) behind the RP panel. The panel is large thereby allowing a great area of diffusion as well as very high CRI figures. The only area of concern is that if would be impossible to get a spot or narrow beam from it unless a snoot or barn doors are used. But as a wide area smooth coverage, it is excellent. The price will surely drop, as usual, and more mfrs will jump in the production. Battery operation is possible but some models only want to have AC powering. If high CRI and wide coverage are a must, then the RP units have no equal as far as leds go.
 
This seems a hot topic. The thing is that despite being a lighting designer for many years, I've never got excited over lighting equipment. Maybe the odd control or super amazing moving light, but Fresnels are just tools. They do a job. You buy new ones when they wear out, or you need more. You don't replace perfectly functional tools with new ones unless they offer more benefits, not just new features. A new led fixture that offered identical performance but was brighter or cheaper would be great - but so far they're nearly as good and more expensive. Next year maybe they can start to use the word BETTER.
 
How about a Remote Phosphor unit, battery operated, 500W equivalent, 9,750 lux@3ft, drawing less than 80W, weighing less than 4 lbs, measuring 12X6 inches, panel design, no DMX, no fans, no flicker or banding, full dimming 0-100%, interchangeable phosphor panels in 2700,3000,3500,4000 and 5000K,
For around $800. Would that be attractive enough ?
 
Norman99 said:
How about a Remote Phosphor unit, battery operated, 500W equivalent, 9,750 lux@3ft, drawing less than 80W, weighing less than 4 lbs, measuring 12X6 inches, panel design, no DMX, no fans, no flicker or banding, full dimming 0-100%, interchangeable phosphor panels in 2700,3000,3500,4000 and 5000K,
For around $800. Would that be attractive enough ?
Click to expand...

Is this available? Very interested at that price! matt@redseavisuals.com
 
Getting closer - bright and light, but at that size, not really a soft light. What's the beam width and colorimetry like?
 
Just in the process of prototyping one. I have all the components already but wanting to know if there is a demand for a smallish unit that is not too large but quick to set-up and take down for interview work. The beam width is in the area of 120 degrees as it uses the phosphor panel as the diffusing medium. There is no way out of it as no collimating lenses or reflectors are used. The coverage will be very wide and the only way to give it directionality would be a grid or eggcrate kind of thing, perhaps a snoot will do. The 24 ultrablue leds are sitting right behind the phosphor. I guess one can make it a softer light by using a softbox to size like any other light source. My idea is to have 2 of them fit in a regulation size carry-on with batteries and 2 small tripods that extend to 5ft. The colorimetry will be like any other ultra expensive RP unit. Doing away with some useless bells and whistles will keep the price down. Just at the experimenting stage at this point. I have already produced a 1K LED ( using 12 leds) that is battery powered. This is my next project.
 
The actual unit prototyped, but photoshoped just the front panel in place to have an idea of how the unit would look when finished. The aluminum casing will be available in black or deep blue anodizing. You can say it is just an artist's conception at this stage.EXP.jpgEXP2.jpg
 
Norman99 said:
The actual unit prototyped, but photoshoped just the front panel in place to have an idea of how the unit would look when finished. The aluminum casing will be available in black or deep blue anodizing. You can say it is just an artist's conception at this stage.View attachment 76359View attachment 76360
Click to expand...

A yoke mount would be handy - with standard mount for light stands. I'd prefer black, silver/clear, or red anodizing :) Would you anticipate bundling all the temperatures Phosphor panels in one kit? At what price point? When I see others charging $350 per phosphor panel, I have to wonder how expensive are these phosphor panels anyway? I am looking at the BBS Area 48 as my main choice... but I could easily see going a little smaller and getting two for less money than theirs - $3000 fully loaded.
 
A yoke mount is standard on it. With standard tripod stud that goes on any swivel umbrella mount. Red anodizing is possible. All temperature panels ? Only if costs are within the affordability area, if not, just one choice from the list. I am not to compete with any other units but making a sample unit as small as possible and battery operation. Once I get enough interest and feedback for design/performance suggestions, I may brand, mass produce and market them in the future.
 
Norman99 said:
How about a Remote Phosphor unit, battery operated, 500W equivalent, 9,750 lux@3ft, drawing less than 80W, weighing less than 4 lbs, measuring 12X6 inches, panel design, no DMX, no fans, no flicker or banding, full dimming 0-100%, interchangeable phosphor panels in 2700,3000,3500,4000 and 5000K,
For around $800. Would that be attractive enough ?
Click to expand...

I'd be very interested (in a couple of units) particularly if they could incorporate some sort of joining component to connect multiple units to create a larger 'single' source (even just simple screw holes that could connect units via a small plate and a couple of screws).

A phosphor panel that comes a little closer to 5600k would be helpful though, 5000k can look a little too warm when mixing it with daylight and HMIs.

Oh, and it'd need to be able to run on 240v power!

Please keep me updated with how you go (mark @ dreamsmiths.com.au)
 
It's a nicely designed piece of kit - I have to say that, and if the light is as good as you say, it's going to be popular. Nice one.
 
5600K RP panels are probably not available yet, as my source have them up to 5000K. The panels I use are cut to 11.5 X 5.5 inches.
Running on 240v AC is not a problem as long as the ac-dc wall adapter is minimum 100 W DC output rated like a 18VDC 6A or like 24VDC 4A. The adapters are easily found also to be 110-220 50/60hz in the range of $25-40.
If I have enough demand , I may be able to include the adapter with every unit.
I have to see to the possibility of connecting multiple units together, perhaps a bracket of some sort. I will figure something out. Good suggestion.
 
I have been asked several times recently to come up with a RP on-camera light for the ENG and social event crowd and at that time was halfway in the concept stage of completion. As a compact battery operated RP unit, I can not think of any that is presently available as a camera mountable unit. However, I did some quick calculations in size vs
thermal limits for a fanless, compact unit that has a battery plate ( Sony NP-F or other) for 7.2 VDC operability and utilizing only 4 - 4.5W leds to achieve 60 watt ( 1000 lumen )
objective. On paper it looks promising as all my calculations are based on parts specs. from their maker. A slightly larger unit using 6 leds would render a 90 watt ( 1500 lumen) unit. Again, I have done a concept photo to illustrate a glimpse of my envisioned project. This is not a final design or product but only something to improve upon by suggestions.
The front panel and blue leds are photoshopped in. I think it is a fairly accurate visual representation.RPC 1.jpgRPC 2.jpg
 
Is that a single extrusion on the 12 x 6 panel or is it a combination of two? I want to play with the 12 x 8.5 Chromalit panel and I'm looking for extrusions.
 
mcgeedigital said:
The Brothers Area 48 is a great looking light with high output.
Click to expand...

The Area 48 lights are outstanding. The snapbag boosts the output about 33% and the V mount option allows great portability.

I have three of them, with both the 5600 and 3200 phosphors. The three light kit is for rent here in So Cal, if anyone is interested.

Thank you very much

Fury
 
"Is that a single extrusion on the 12 x 6 panel or is it a combination of two? I want to play with the 12 x 8.5 Chromalit panel and I'm looking for extrusions."

Single extrusion.
 
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