Release Forms Impossible

J

Jokerswild

Well-known member
Hi Folks. I am in production of a documentary regarding POW/MIA issues. Thus far I have obtained full actor and property releases where I am filming interviews and private locations...Now I have a situation coming up where I will film a gathering of Veterans at a National Memorial. The group has given me full permission but I am sure there will be people in that group,(a public event) who are not members of this organization. Am I safe in filming the event and ceremony even though I am sure there will be many many people in the audience who are not members of this group? (FYI, there may be close to a hundred thousand people in attendance)

The documentary is a commercial venture where I hope to make a profit even though I will donate a percentage of any proceeds to veterans' causes.

Thanks for any suggestions.

Oh, BTW, I will be filming right along side with the veterans' group but do I need to apply for any permits in Washington D.C.?
 
If it's crowd scenes where you can't really identify the people in the back ground you don't have a problem as it is a public place and you have permission from the group. That's a way that narrow DOF could be very handy.

There are slightly different rules for news type recording, as this is allowed in a public place.
But realistically don't expect accurate advice on an internet forum.

However, if you search these forums for posts by PTravel (I haven't seen him here lately), he is an intellectual property attorney and his posts regarding copyright, trademark, commercial use, etc are much more accurate and reliable than anyone elses here.
 
Grinner is right. You only need releases when individuals have a reasonable expectation of privacy. People standing at the Vietnam/Korea/WWI Memorial do not have a reasonable expectation of privacy.

However, you may or may not need a permit from the parks department to shoot. Check www.nps.gov.
 
Again, DON'T take legal advice through a forum like this. What you're told may or may not be accurate.

I believe there's a difference between an 'expectation of privacy' and the use of someone's image in a film for profit -- or even not for profit. But I'm NOT an attorney.

I've heard people say many times here that it's okay to just put up big signs telling people that you're shooting a film. I always feel this is definitely not adequate protection. What about the people who can't read? Are blind? Don't read English? Or just simply are preoccupied with something else and don't see the signs? What about children and minors?

It seems dangerous to risk something like this without consulting proper legal counsel. Better safe than sorry.
 
"Expectation of privacy" is not the legal standard when it comes to releasing people for commercial productions, at least not as far as I know in my locality. The general rule is if the person can be identified you should have a release from them. Is this practical: no, not all the time! Do you want to find out the hard way when somebody sees themself on the tv and contacts the production company: also "no."

You'll get a bunch of answers on this--as you already have--- some from well informed people and others from people who think they know the standard but don't or who are advocating the standard they wish were in place. The Safest thing to do is have a discussion with your production company's attorney and see what the company is willing to tolerate. Many are risk averse and want everything released.

Case in point: I attended a documentary workshop a couple of years ago. The production company that ran it wanted everything released: people, premises, logos etc. Even people in the backround of interviews. Why? They just didn't want to be bothered by someone showing up six months later objecting to their likeness being on tv without permission or a company complaining that the interviewee was holding a Coke can.

If you're hoping to make money from the venture, it's worth your time and a small investment of money to get real legal counsel. I am an attorney and I'd still get a consult from a specialist before I risked my product on the outside chance no one will complain.

(And of course the disclaimer: no you may not consider this formal legal advise or representation and no attorney-client relartionship has been established by my attempt to steer you away from getting legal counsel on an internet message board).
 
Bobonli said:
"Expectation of privacy" is not the legal standard when it comes to releasing people for commercial productions, at least not as far as I know in my locality.
Click to expand...

Would you be so kind as to give us a hint as to where you locality is?
 
Thanks all. I would have responded sooner but when I did a "new posts" search, it never came up..Ah, I probably just missed it..Sorry about that.

Anyway, I appreciate all the advice realizing that I will get a formal legal consult before the filming takes place. It will happen in Washington, D.C. during a large veterans gathering.
 
Whenever we do these sorts of shoots for the studios, we place posters at all entrance points stating that "by entering the premises, you are granting permission to be filmed". These are the same posters that are posted at Disneyland when you go in and they are filming a commercial or event. We always shoot the posters in a single shot showing where they are located along with a pan of the area. I would agree with the advice that you should get releases from anyone that is featured on camera in a shot, not a wide pan of the audience for instance, but someone at a podium or a medium or CU reaction shot.

The legal effectiveness of this approach is highly dependent on points of entry. If tickets are sold, you can actually print this disclaimer on the ticket, proving that everyone who paid admission was notified of the filming and that their presence at the event, using the ticket to gain entrance was their act of relinquishing the rights to their image at the event but it sounds as if this won't have a ticket, or an admission fee and that you won't be able to control that all people entering the premises will see the posters saying that by entering, they are giving permission to be filmed. So this approach may not work well for your situation.

You will definitely need a location release if you intend to use this commercially, I would definitely get a location release signed by the NPS as suggested.

Bobnils advice is best to consult with a qualified attorney. It also helps if you have an army of PAs at the ready with Sharpies and releases and that you do not use any footage that you do not have a signed release for. But that will probably be difficult for you?

Dan
 
puredrifting said:
Whenever we do these sorts of shoots for the studios, we place posters at all entrance points stating that "by entering the premises, you are granting permission to be filmed". These are the same posters that are posted at Disneyland when you go in and they are filming a commercial or event. We always shoot the posters in a single shot showing where they are located along with a pan of the area. I would agree with the advice that you should get releases from anyone that is featured on camera in a shot, not a wide pan of the audience for instance, but someone at a podium or a medium or CU reaction shot.

The legal effectiveness of this approach is highly dependent on points of entry. If tickets are sold, you can actually print this disclaimer on the ticket, proving that everyone who paid admission was notified of the filming and that their presence at the event, using the ticket to gain entrance was their act of relinquishing the rights to their image at the event but it sounds as if this won't have a ticket, or an admission fee and that you won't be able to control that all people entering the premises will see the posters saying that by entering, they are giving permission to be filmed. So this approach may not work well for your situation.

You will definitely need a location release if you intend to use this commercially, I would definitely get a location release signed by the NPS as suggested.

Bobnils advice is best to consult with a qualified attorney. It also helps if you have an army of PAs at the ready with Sharpies and releases and that you do not use any footage that you do not have a signed release for. But that will probably be difficult for you?

Dan
Click to expand...

Dan, posters or printing on tickets won't help you if anyone in your shot either is blind, can't read, or can't read English. I believe it also wouldn't cover minors. A huge corporation like Disney can afford high caliber lawyers to fight any lawsuit, but the rest of us can't.

Bobnils is right. Consult a qualified attorney.
 
Oh sure, I know, I am just saying that is what the studios have us do and even though the studios do have tons of overpriced lawyers on staff, believe it or not, they will do almost ANYTHING to not get sued. I have paid out hundreds of thousands of dollars to people and entities who really had no reason to be paid for this simple reason, the studios decided it was cheaper to throw a little money at them and get a release than to flirt with possibly getting dragged into court.

With television stuff, I notice they are a lot more lenient with this sort of risk, but for DVD, because they are selling, rather than just broadcasting a show, they are ultra paranoid and ultra convervative. We do a LOT of tiling and blurring of faces on any show like the OP is describing and the editors are always instructed to only use shots of released talent, avoiding, blurring, tiling or whip panning around non-released talent.

Now that you mention it, I wonder how venues like baseball stadiums and theme parks get around the posting when there are blind or illiterate people who obviously stream into Disneyland every day? They don't have loudpseakers giving a warning.

Dan
 
I do this sort of this for the studios from time to time. you need to post signs that say you are filming and that being in the area gives consent to use their likeness, etc, etc. be sure to videotape the signs and show they are in a visible, high traffic area.

EDIT -- and i see dan has already posted this. nevermind.
 
There's never a clear cut answer with these things - just keep in mind any news station can pretty much shoot at will on the street and doesn't get releases for the visible people in the background LOL.

There's also "implied consent" - ie if you don't have a form from someone, but it's clear they're aware they're being filmed, then that will hold up in a court
 
Psynema said:
There's never a clear cut answer with these things - just keep in mind any news station can pretty much shoot at will on the street and doesn't get releases for the visible people in the background LOL.

There's also "implied consent" - ie if you don't have a form from someone, but it's clear they're aware they're being filmed, then that will hold up in a court
Click to expand...

Journalism is a whole other thing than for-profit production or even non-profit production.

Implied consent? Hoofa, I wouldn't want to go to court on that one.

Dan
 
oh oh....look what I started..hahaha. I really appreciate the input though. I almost feel like shooting stills now and then doing my thing in Photoshop to blur out the images of people I am do not want in the shots...Bear in mind..There will be OVER a hundred thousand people there....How many signs to alert that many people??? It would be a full time job to plant those signs and I am sure somebody would say they didn't see them. Maybe I will put a few up and photograph them to show at least my intent to alert the folks. I was also thinking that perhaps my contacts with the veterans could make an announcement in their newletter or even at the podium as well. Can't hurt.

And I will consult with legal as well. BTW, yesterday I downloaded the permit forms for the National Park Service. They have a sliding scale for fees. $50 to submit the form and in my case, I am traveling light for this shoot..One tripod, one camera and two people. There is no per day fee for that.....If I had a larger crew and more gear, it starts out at $150 per day fee and goes up from there to $500 or more.

I already have most of my footage already and will in all likelihood only use about 30 seconds of footage from this entire weekend event. If anybody wants to see what I am doing, feel free to look at my profile. My website is listed there and when at my site, there is a prominent link to the documentary film. I would post the link here but I am not sure that is allowed on the forums. If it is, let me know and I will just give the link to make it easy. Thanks again for all the help.
 
Interesting tidbit. This is a link to the form that is called pre-registration with a $100 fee. Looks like this is what I need. The requirements are that it is a film in production where filming has begun but the final product is not yet ready for release. Here is the link to that:
http://www.copyright.gov/prereg/index.html

Also, seems the PA form or PA short form has now been renamed to the CO or eCO form. That is what I learned today.
 
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