Red Pro Primes or Zeiss CP.2?

bill totolo

bill totolo

Veteran
If you were considering a PL lens set, what qualities of each lens set would influence your decision?

Used the "Search" function, couldn't locate any existing threads on this topic, though I'm sure they exist somewhere.

Thanks,
 
Between those two? CP.2's! :)

I don't like to often speak out about the horribleness of RedPro Primes, because of potential people who might take offense, (those who own them and perhaps the folks at RED) but if you're looking between the two, I'd def. go CP.2's. They aren't without their own flaws nor are they the best, but for the price point, they sure are gosh darn good.

I've worked with both and I can tell you the following...

Red Pro Primes Pro's:
They work.
They seem to be relatively ok color matched.
They are wee bit warm... looked more like Cooke skin tones versus Ultra Primes or other Zeiss glass. This is only a pro if you like that aesthetic, which I do. Kinda like picking Kodak's warmth over Fuji's Greens. ;)
The have i/technology (which I like)
That's about it... I guess they physically look cool too. If that counts for something. haha.

Red Pro Primes Con's:
They are SUPER heavy comparable to almost any PL lens set. The 18mm being 6.5 lbs!!! (Cooke S4 18mm is 3.85 lbs... Zeiss CP.2 18mm is 2 lbs.... yes 2 lbs.) They are super short in length and very wide.
Focus marks on the barrel are a joke. Large gaps between numbers keep 1st AC's guessing. Not good.
Not that it's important, but the Red PL back-caps don't sit tight at all. They are looks and pop-off at the first inclination. :(


Zeiss CP.2 Pro's:
Cost
Weight (almost all of them are between 2-3 lbs! Nice!)
Low profile. (almost all are short in length but a little fat)
They are top of the line photography glass rehoused for cinema.
Good investment as of today if you rent to indie productions and below. DSLR's and Red cameras are using them, they have interchangeable mounts, and can go on just about anything... making them more desirable on the rental market and opens you to a greater customer base. In my experience, RedPro Primes have always gone on RedOne cameras. They can go on any PL mount camera, but I've never seen anyone use them otherwise. Most people who use RedPro Primes do so because it's a discount with the camera from the provider. I've never seen anyone go out of their way to rent them. With the possible exception of Sodenberg (I still have yet to confirm it) none of the big hollywood productions that have used RedOne cameras, have used RedProPrimes. They go Master Primes, Primos, Ultra's, Cooke S4, or Angeniuex's.


Zeiss CP.2 Con's:
They are top of the line photography glass re-housed for cine- use. Thus there are some issues that top of the line cinema lenses are better with than these, however that's why these lenses are great performance-cost while other lenses are godly expensive at 20k+/lens. You pay MUCH more to smooth out the 'little' things.
Open aperture is not constant in the set. Not a big deal if you know the range of lenses you will be using and light to the least common denominator of all those lenses, however the lower range primes are a wee bit slow for many... But I don't personally think so because I like a T/4 or T/5.6 in my films. However, I do gravitate to a T/2.8 base at times. The 18mm CP.2 is the slowest at T/3.6, however the others are much better. The future of cinema is faster camera's so unless you like disgusting shallow DoF at all times, hey. Plus the lens that is slowest is the wide, so super shallow DoF was probably not going to be a big option anyhow.
They are so light weight and short in length you may drop one. (Sorry D. Carstens!)

Obviously the last is a joke...

I bought a set of new Cooke Panchro/i lenses. 18-25-32-50-75-100. I love those lenses, but they do not rent as often as CP.2's due to the CP.2's being much more affordable, adaptable, and popular among the indie masses.

If I were to choose between RPP's and CP.2's I'd def go with the CP.2's. If I were renting, it would be a 'no-brainer'. You'd be an idiot to rent RPP's for a DSLR or any other lightweight camera. Primes lenses don't need to be that big, heavy, AND have crap focus marks when there is room to spare due to the girth of the lens.

But... with all that said, you ought to go to a rental house who has both and do some tests. It's the only way to really know what you like. Shoot charts and then shoot people. You have to do both. You'll see science with one and character with the other. I love some old- kinda crappy lenses because of the latter.
 
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mcgeedigital said:
Neither.

Look at the Schneider Cine-Xenars.
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I've never used them. Can't comment.

Looks cool. Something in the CP.2 class from what it looks.

The only thing that jumps out at me is the aperture blades... yes more get's rounder if that is what you like, but it makes me curious why there is a qualifier used. Does that mean some have different number of aperture blades? I'd want my lens set to match in blades on every lens. Not that the average person will really notice. :P
 
Couldn't ask for a better reply. Thanks for the pro's and con's of each.
I've never used the rpp's so they were a bit of a mystery to me.

Re: the Xenars, I'm starting to hear a bit of chatter about, I'd like to know how they stack up against the competition and if you think they'll hold up to rigorous production needs over time.

Thanks,
 
I purchased the AF100 and looking to get a PL mount system. I heard that the Schneiders are a good lens as well. They seem to have a closer bracket of stops as well. the 18 is 1.9. https://www.schneideroptics.com/ecommerce/CatalogSubCategoryDisplay.aspx?CID=1724 .
Anyone know anything about these guys called Unique optics? Constant 1.9 for all lenses. still it's 10k more.
This place sells used lenses. The old zeiss, for the a little more you might want to get the older glass. http://www.visualproducts.com/storeProductDetail03.asp?productID=976&Cat=8&Cat2=18&Cat3=26
 
Would you

Would you

I may have the change to get a set of CP.2 at a ridiculous price ( about half off) , do you think this is a worthwhile investment if im looking to rent them to pay them off before using them for my own productions?
 
Xenars are 10 different kinds of yuck, but only ergonomically. Interms of image they are quite nice.

About CP's vs RPP vs ( Cookes, PL Zeiss)

The CP's i have are nice, but are lacking a long lens. They top out at 85mm. They are sharp, have good contrast, and perform quite well. RPP, look well... Nice i guess. Thats the thing with RPP, they just look, like, bleh. milquetoast, but very capable standard primes. i mean, i wouldnt be pissed at them owning a set. They are heavy, as noted.

I feel like RPP are more "PL" lenses, than the converted CP's. That said, if im doing a low budget shoot, i'd take the CP's just cause if in gonna go with compromise, im going with the lighter of the two. RPP are the very bottom rung of "real" PL lenses. The Scneiders/CP's/uniqueoptics being the "top shelf" rehoused PL lenses.

PS RPO, i find that my Panchros rent ALOT more than the CP's. I had 2 CP rentals this month, and 5 Panchro rentals. People are just asking for them.
 
TimurCivan said:
PS RPO, i find that my Panchros rent ALOT more than the CP's. I had 2 CP rentals this month, and 5 Panchro rentals. People are just asking for them.
Click to expand...

Damn! That's great!

That's awesome. If you ever get 'over-rented' maybe I can send you mine and cut you a nice percentage, although mine are getting rented out quite often too! Just a couple long gigs, rather than shorter but more frequent ones :) Lot's of indie features going off right now.
 
if I may thread jack on the primes to ask whats ur take on buying cine zooms with approx 17-50mm range at under 4 grand?
(I ask because I'm considering buying a preowned red 18-50mm T3 cine zoom that is now discontinued, am very aware of its short
comings but they are flipping for around the 3-3.5 grand mark which makes them do-able for someone like myself.)
 
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