recording audio for live play (total newbie)

[filmic]

Hi, I'm totally new to everything. I ordered a 100A which should arrive tomorrow. I have never worked with video and barely even had an interest in photography. A friend of mine is in a vaudevillian-style burlesque show (tasteful nudity, tasteless comedy) and I thought it would be a good chance to start learning. I am most concerned about the audio.

It's a small 100 seat theatre with the 1 foot high stage in one corner with seating in three areas: centre floor, bleacher on one side, balcony on another. The centre floor seating consists of many small tables (like a comedy club/dinner show).

I want to run around with the camera to get interesting shots/angles. There will be music along with the singing and dancing of the small troupe, so I'd like a continuous stereo recording of the 2 hour (1 intermission) event.

What I've got planned so far is to set up one (consumer grade) stationary camcorder that also records the stereo audio and use a shotgun with the mobile DVX for interesting shots. The sound layout hasn't been finalized and I imagine it will be some number of speakers set around the room so everyone can hear and get some imaging.

I know someone who has two DM-170A microphones. I don't know the brand, that's all it says on it, and it has BNC (bayonet connectors). I can also borrow two identical wireless mics also with BNC connectors (from two different people). I think these are analog and may pick up RF noise at the venue. These are probably all cardioid.

The audio quality using the cheap camcorder will suffer. An alternative is to use a music CD recorder (Harmon Kardon CDR-26), which I can also borrow. I think it only records at 44.1 kHz and I don't know if that will be a problem. I am expecting to buy one general purpose shotgun mic, probably the AT897 for the DVX.

The best solution would be to set up stationary good stereo microphones with a wireless receiver on the DVX. That would make the audio quality better and sync'ing easier/possible. I'll need to use the footage from the stationary camera to fill in when the DVX is being moved to shoot from another angle.

I want a clean sound but also capture some of the ambience of the live performance. What would you recommend? co-incident pair, stereo boundary, stereo shotgun and how should it be set up? Also, how much would it cost to rent the audio equipment for a day? Any video shooting tips are also greatly appreciated.

As you may be able to tell, there is no budget for this. I'm doing it for fun and experience, although I really do want it to turn out well and be used as promotional material for the troupe. In addition to having no budget, I have practially no time. Get the camera tomorrow, charge the batteries, read the manual, learn the controls, plan the audio, attend a rehearsal for the first time, book equipment, shoot. All by this coming Tuesday. If you're in town and want to help (please!), PM me.

Keith.


Shameless plug (if you're in Toronto and have $10 to spare to support the white ribbon campaign):

 

[wabbit]

I think this is one of those circumstances that you really need to just hire a professional sound mixer. There are too many variables in what you have discribed for a novice to attempt in such short order with so few resources. If you got one shot to get right, you need to use the rebate from the DVX or save the money you were gonna use to purchase the mic and just hire a mixer for the day.

Toronto has a thriving film industry so finding someone adequate to work for a good rate should not be too hard.

Best of luck!

 

[filmic]

People here are so good about stepping outside of the box and providing good advice. If getting a good result was my primary objective then I would do as you suggest. In this case the result is secondary. Even if the whole thing was a fixed shot of the stage using the built-in mic, it would be something better than nothing.

The primary goal is for me to practice and learn. I just want to make the most of this opportunity and avoid any catastophic mistakes.

Another question I had was "How hard would it be to sync up the audio if recorded separately without time code, assuming that it will essentially be two continuous shots of an hour each (with intermission in between)."

 

[alwayslearning]

What I've got planned so far is to set up one (consumer grade) stationary camcorder that also records the stereo audio and use a shotgun with the mobile DVX for interesting shots.

I'm curious how you intend to interface the XLR (Not BNC) connector to the consumer camera?

I've shot a lot of theater type settings and have had good results with PZM mics.

That DM-170A mic looks pretty low end ...
http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=41460&item=7307706759&rd=1
But for playin' around and learning I guess it'll do.

Larry

 

[wabbit]

Some PZM are probably a good idea. I personally would need to see what is actually happening on stage. How many performers, is there live singing (versus lip-synched), choreographed dancing, do the comedic performers use a handheld mic, is there a PA system you can patch into? The problem is what I see in my head is probably not close to what you are actually trying to do.

Maybe an idea would be to contact a local sound guy and invite him to a free screening of show (with wife or whatever) with the idea of picking his brain afterwards for some audio advice. If I was in Toronto I would probably take you up on it.

As far as sync goes, you normally would use a audio/visual cue (a slate, your hands clapping in front of camera, etc) to set sync but even then you would very likely get some drift in an hours time.

 

[Barry_Green]

If there's an actual sound system in the theater (meaning, they're dangling microphones from the grid, running that to a master mixer somewhere, and then pumping that signal out to some speakers) then probably the best audio you'll get is going to come from getting an XLR feed out of that mixer.

Barring that... um... ugh. It's likely going to be nasty whatever you do. If your camera is moving, that pretty much rules out any on-camera mic (which should always be ruled out anyway) because as you get closer to one side or the other, the audio on that side will be emphasized, and that results in a soundtrack that's not representative of the whole play.

If you can't get a feed from the mixer, something like a PZM might be the way to go...

Putting a camera out in the audience area will just overemphasize the audience's reactions, to the detriment of the live audio.

I'd say try to get a mixer feed for your main audio, and pipe that to the DVX, and then let the consumer camera's onboard mic capture the audience ambience. Then mix 'em in post.