Recording a dance

D

David Evans

Well-known member
Hey guys,

I'll be shooting a short film next month and one of the scenes includes an actress, in a hotel room, dancing to a song. I think, in order to look good, she should be dancing to the rythm of the song, but how do I have her listen to the song while also capturing sound from the room and of her moves? Better to record her sounds later ?

Thanks!
 
Ironfilm,

Thanks. This is an instrumental piece. She's just going to be dancing to the rythm. In a music video I'd be playing the song for her without any limitations because I wouldn't need any sound from the scene. In this case, since it's a short film, I need sound from the room (which would be "contaminated" by the song being played).
 
Where does the music come from in the story? Is she hearing it in her head or is it coming from a stereo, phone, live band downstairs? I have worked on sets where there was a sound system setup that reproduced only the lowest bass sounds, so all the talent could hear was a slight thump on the beat. The other option would be to setup some sort of visual playback system on a monitor that would give the talent the rhythm. Not that difficult to do, much easier if the song is a pop or blues kind of song that typically would have the same beats and rhythm throught the song. If it's jazz or classical or a song where the tempo varies, that's more difficult. The other possibility would be to put an IFB/Comtek in her ear and play back the music so she would hear it wirelessly through her ears. Keep the volume low and you could possibly make this work. I would shoot a test before trying any of this on shoot day. Where there is a will...
 
What will the room sound be? Is she singing along, or talking? Or is it simply room noises like her footsteps, or her touching things? These could be recorded in a non-sync take, then dubbed over the take with playback?
 
Thanks guys. The room sounds that I want to record is just her footsteps and the sound of the dress while she dances. I think the easiest way will be to just foley that later and keep the music playing while shooting the scene.
 
David Evans said:
Ironfilm,

Thanks. This is an instrumental piece. She's just going to be dancing to the rythm. In a music video I'd be playing the song for her without any limitations because I wouldn't need any sound from the scene. In this case, since it's a short film, I need sound from the room (which would be "contaminated" by the song being played).
Click to expand...

I think you are making a not rare low budget error in not planing on a real sound post. No narrative film with a budget records ambiences and such ON set, they are added in post. The room sound is "contaminated" by crew equipment and the fact that it is a set.

Sorry for sounding preachy. You can use whatever you get while shooting, many no budget filmmakers work that way. Personally I think they are missing a great opportunity to step ahead of the pact and not sound like every other no budget film. The argument is always "it's too much work" to do sound post. But then you go through a lot of work trying to avoid sound post so...

If I were making decisions on this I would shoot with the music so she can dance to it. Record the audio because you will need that to sync to the clean version of the music in post.
She is dancing to music the audience can hear so probably most of the rest of the sounds take a big back seat to the music. You can record the room on it's own, to add back in, and at the simplest level you can record her "dancing" to get moves for pseudo Foley.

Now if the rest of the sounds are important then you should do some actual Foley, or what we would call WIFO (Wild Foley). The later is really FX recording to be used in place of Foley.

Personally I would have your sound editor/ designer create the ambiences and choose the sounds for every scene in the film so they are actually the sounds of the WORLD the story takes place in rather than the sounds of the world the film is shot in. It is really unlikely those two worlds are the same. But if you are not going to do the whole film then recording the room and adding some Foley touches will fit better.

Depending on where the music exists in the story you may need to treat it also. If it is IN the world of the story then the cheapest, simplest way to do that is to "worldize" it. Play it about where it would be in the story with a boom box or something and record it from the room. It will sound right and it doesn't coat anything.
 
Noiz2 said:
I think you are making a not rare low budget error in not planing on a real sound post. No narrative film with a budget records ambiences and such ON set, they are added in post. The room sound is "contaminated" by crew equipment and the fact that it is a set.

Sorry for sounding preachy. You can use whatever you get while shooting, many no budget filmmakers work that way. Personally I think they are missing a great opportunity to step ahead of the pact and not sound like every other no budget film. The argument is always "it's too much work" to do sound post. But then you go through a lot of work trying to avoid sound post so...

If I were making decisions on this I would shoot with the music so she can dance to it. Record the audio because you will need that to sync to the clean version of the music in post.
She is dancing to music the audience can hear so probably most of the rest of the sounds take a big back seat to the music. You can record the room on it's own, to add back in, and at the simplest level you can record her "dancing" to get moves for pseudo Foley.

Now if the rest of the sounds are important then you should do some actual Foley, or what we would call WIFO (Wild Foley). The later is really FX recording to be used in place of Foley.

Personally I would have your sound editor/ designer create the ambiences and choose the sounds for every scene in the film so they are actually the sounds of the WORLD the story takes place in rather than the sounds of the world the film is shot in. It is really unlikely those two worlds are the same. But if you are not going to do the whole film then recording the room and adding some Foley touches will fit better.

Depending on where the music exists in the story you may need to treat it also. If it is IN the world of the story then the cheapest, simplest way to do that is to "worldize" it. Play it about where it would be in the story with a boom box or something and record it from the room. It will sound right and it doesn't coat anything.
Click to expand...

Thanks Scott. I am actually a firm believer on doing most audio things in post, where real sound design happens. And I think this scene won't be any different. But sometimes there simply isn't enough budget to call the actors in for lip synch and stuff like that. Fortunately, this scene won't have any dialogue, just her body and clothes moving, so that can be easily recorded after.

BTW, the music will be coming out of a radio in the room. Do you think it's better to boom the radio and record the audio or did I misunderstand what you said?

Thanks
 
Think of the music you play on set as a guide just for the artists to mime to, most music videos and films are done this way and it usually involves doing several passes to get a variety of shots for the final edit. The music is recorded as a guide for sync reference and then the original track that was mimed to is what you edit to in post and do any effects that are required to make it sound like a radio etc as it has to run concurrent and be a single piece of audio even though you may have several different shots from numerous takes.

When we did this for music shows we would also put a sync clap on the head for reference but in latter days the master track had a timecode reference that was then common to every shot done throughout the day.

It may well be that if you need just one shot just run the track and let the actor dance to the whole track therefore giving you lots of options that could be re-synchronised in post or used as alternatives.
 
David Evans said:
BTW, the music will be coming out of a radio in the room. Do you think it's better to boom the radio and record the audio or did I misunderstand what you said?

Thanks
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You can either use a very cool (but kind of pricey) plugin called "speakerphone" that can do some wonderful room simulations (and add junk if you need like static and "bad reception", or on no budget play the music back on something as close as you can get to the "radio" and re-record it on set with nothing else going on. That could be a boom, but that is a long time to boom so I would use a mic stand, or prop the boom. Fantasy studios used to have what they called the "futz room". A switch on the mix console would feed one of a variety of speakers, from phone hand sets to old radios and a mic in the room would send the signal back to the console. Quick cheap and sound good.
 
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