recording 2 channels with 3 mics?

Patryk_Rebisz

Patryk_Rebisz

Veteran
In a typical set up: 2 people talking at a table or say while walking in the park i asume you would have 2 lavs on and a 3rd mic being a boom. Now since i can only record 2 channels (Canon HV20) how would you o about mixing it?
 
2 people walking in the park or at a table?
commit to EITHER 2 wires OR a boom.

or split the lav's and add just a HAIR of boom on both for ambience.
(but please know what you're doing if you go this route as to not cause phase issues for post)
 
I want to add, your solution could be different everytime depending on the situation.

The answer could be what I said above, or what bob mentioned,
or a number of other solutions as well.
 
i just wanted to clarify.

I'm using Canon HV20 with JuicedLink adapter so i only have 2 inputs on the adapter meaning i'll have to split the wireless mics with Y-splitter fon one channel and boom on another (will that work?).
 
keeps the lavs separate otherwise you are taking away the isolated quality that you are using the lavs for - just monitor well on set and make sure you get the dialogue - then makes certain you get room tone afterwards on the boom to mix in ambience later.
 
Unless you have a quality lav/trans/rec system and the lavs are placed on the talent with great care and competence you will probably end up with quite a bit of clothing noise and the voices fading in and out as the talent moves their heads. A good mic on a boom is almost always your best option.

On the dozens of shorts and six features on which I have worked I have only used the lav tracks to fix a word or line, never as the primary dialog.
 
Patryk_Rebisz said:
i just wanted to clarify.

I'm using Canon HV20 with JuicedLink adapter so i only have 2 inputs on the adapter meaning i'll have to split the wireless mics with Y-splitter fon one channel and boom on another (will that work?).
Click to expand...

You need to combine the two wireless receiver outputs, not split them. But don't try to just use a simple "Y" cable splitter working in reverse to do this. The two receiver outputs need to be electically isolated from each other and you need a proper mic combiner or mixer to do this right, otherwise the two signal sources can interact. You can often Y split a single line-level output (mic level may be another matter) to send it to two destinations with a simple cable but going the other direction, combining two signals into a single input, needs more than just a "Y". A 4-channel JuicedLink, a proper passive mic combiner (such as the Whirlwind IMP (http://www.whirlwindusa.com/comb.html#imcoml), or a SD302 or equivalent is needed here.

Generally you would want to keep the lavs isolated from each other but adding the boom to the mix complicates things. Multiple mics can interact when mixed, the varying distances from the sound source giving rise to phase issues, but such interaction is much more likely if you mix the lav and a boom than it is if you mix the two lavs. So if you want the boom as well as the lavs and only have two tracks to record on, mix the two lavs and put them on one track and keep the boom isolated and put it on the other. (Or rent a 4 track recorder and shoot double system.)
 
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keep it simple. boom it.

wireless = clothes noise, mic placement, wireless hits, batteries to die, etc...

and also factor in cost. renting a good boom setup $55/day(boom, xlr cable, senn 416 w/zepp) vs 2 good wireless setups $75/day(lectro 400 series w/b6's)
 
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The best answer could vary depending on the situation (camera framing, acoustics of room, etc), but I would probably do a mix using any or all of the mics, to my taste, on channel 1, then isolate the wireless mics on channel 2. My mix may consist only of the boom, or only the wireless lavs, or a varying combination of all three. But however you deside to assign your tracks, make sure they are clearly documented for the next person down the line (even if that person is yourself), such as "CH1=MONO MIX, CH2=LAVS" or "CH1=MONO MIX, CH2=BOOM", etc.

Glen Trew
 
Hym, it seems the answer is more complicated than i anticipated. I don't want to only go with the lavs as many sound men i worked with told me that the boom mic has usually richer sound (and t does sound better and more clean to my ear as compared to the lavs). It looks like i'll have to work with what i own (Rode NTG2 boom mic and 2x Sennheiser wireless mics).
 
Patryk_Rebisz said:
Hym, it seems the answer is more complicated than i anticipated. I don't want to only go with the lavs as many sound men i worked with told me that the boom mic has usually richer sound (and t does sound better and more clean to my ear as compared to the lavs). It looks like i'll have to work with what i own (Rode NTG2 boom mic and 2x Sennheiser wireless mics).
Click to expand...

Hi Patryk,

The Rode NTG2 and Sennheiser wireless mics (I'm assuming the Sennheiser G2 or G3 Evolution models) will be fine if they are positioned properly and the levels are set properly.

Glen Trew
 
I also advice to use the boom. In case of shadow problems, frame problems you can use the lavs. But know how the scene will be cut. For example if there is first a very very very very wide shot, but in the editing you just use this shot for 4 seconds and the dialoge starts in the close up, don't worry about the dialogue in the very very very very wide shot.

When using the lavs, take indeed care of clote nois,....

And of course, renting a 4 track recorder is another solution, but then you will need also a clapper for the sync later on. Take very care to have the clap good in image.
 
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