Recommendation for Microphone

hasselblad

hasselblad

Well-known member
I am shooting a wedding on the beach. I will be doing the photography. The bride and groom asked my wife to record the wedding on a HDSLR. She will be using two Canon 5D Mark IIIs. My question: What kind of microfone setup should we buy to record the voice of the Bride + Broom + Officiant without getting the wind and the waves in the background. I don't want to have the cheapest solution but I don't want to spend a lot of money on it either.

Thanks a lot!!!
 
Hire a professional experienced wedding videographer .. save yourself.. the bride/groom.. and their families aggravation.. not to mention your friendship with them, if things don't work out to expectations.
I'm not in this particular aspect of the business, but it's not easy. An inexperienced/hobbyist approach is not be a good idea! IMHO anyway.
 
Hi

Yeah, the best advice is hire a pro. You are a pro photog, you know the difference in your own field. But that's not what you asked. I would rent wireless lavs for bride, groom and officiant. The rental house can help you with what to get and check you out on it. You can try to mix live but why risk it? If you really want to do the video yourselves maybe hire a sound guy. I also suppose you could run a channel into each camera and then one more into a small recorder. Or bring them into a rented recorder that can capture three channels with someone to look after the whole rig. Another suggestion which is not as reliable is to plant small recorders on each person with lavs and forego the wireless part, but then no monitoring at all. Your other options are everyone takes turns hand holding a mic or you have a boom op doing his thing.

That's a lot of different confogurations. Maybe more info about $$ and crew available would help. Also about the expectations of the Bride and Groom. Personally I try to NEVER shoot something that matters at all without having lots of practice. I can only speak for myself but everything that can go wrong -> has. Only then do I learn and catch a break.

Good Luck with whatever you choose.
 
If your intention is to learn to do videography, and this isn't going to be your only "rodeo"... then wired or wireless lavs are a wise choice. I've only done 1 wedding in my entire 3 years of being a videographer, with another one coming up in 2 weeks.

Here's how I'd do it, and considering I'm close on broke about 90% of the time:

1 Azden EX503 lav mic on the groom, fed into a Zoom H1 handy recorder. Set input levels to somewhere around 45, and hope he doesn't yell.
1 Rode Videomic per camera. You could get away with a cheaper shotgun mic... I believe there are Rode Videomic lookalikes that cost about $50-60 bucks less than the original. Also get wind socks for both mics.

And I'd have a third camera running, doesn't have to be a 5D... you could get away with any HD handycam on a decent tripod (weigh it down, it can get windy on the beach).

You can do away with the Azden lav in the recorder if you wish, and replace it with a Sennheiser wireless lav kit fed straight into your 5D (or a recorder if you wish).
 
Seconding the suggestion to rent wireless lavs and mic the groom and the celebrant. But sorry Daniel, never anything Azden, especially something as near the bottom of the Azden barrel as a $20 lav! About the lowest cost wireless worthy of serious uses is the Sennheiser G3 series. On camera shotguns usually do not produce good sounding audio but you might get away with it for this shoot - you said you were concerned about the sound of wind and waves in the background so it sounds like you're outdoors on a beach - shotguns with good wind protection are okay outdoors but won't be close enough to get good results on the vows. Send the wireless to a good stand-alone recorder.
 
What I was offering was a budget alternative.

I'll be shooting like this in two weeks, and I'm very impressed with the Azden EX503 as a lav. Having used the Sennheiser G3 kit in the past, I love it... but could never afford it, let alone use it enough to justify the investment. I understand videography to be a "to be taken seriously, you must be serious" type of business... but a lot of people get by on budget gear, and still manage to get clients to pay pretty good money for it.

Just my two cents worth.
 
DanielRutter said:
What I was offering was a budget alternative.

I'll be shooting like this in two weeks, and I'm very impressed with the Azden EX503 as a lav. Having used the Sennheiser G3 kit in the past, I love it... but could never afford it, let alone use it enough to justify the investment. I understand videography to be a "to be taken seriously, you must be serious" type of business... but a lot of people get by on budget gear, and still manage to get clients to pay pretty good money for it.

Just my two cents worth.
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If you're doing it for a hobby shooting friends and family it doesn't matter much and minimum budget solutions are okay if that's all you can afford. But if you have actual clients that are paying you real money to do a professional job, "budget" takes on a different meaning. In that case, "budget" means the least you can spend while still delivering a product to the client that is fully up to professional standards. You don't need thousands of dollars worth of top-shelf gear to do that but you do need better than a $20 toy.
 
I definitely wouldn't call this lav a toy. This 20 dollar lav sounds 10x better than my $150 (when I bought it) Rode Videomic.

Call me crazy, but I would say the Azden lav sounds just as good as the one Sennheiser stick with their G3 kits. But hey... I'm not a pro, I don't claim to be.
 
Rick R said:
Hire a professional experienced wedding videographer .. save yourself.. the bride/groom.. and their families aggravation.. not to mention your friendship with them, if things don't work out to expectations.
I'm not in this particular aspect of the business, but it's not easy. An inexperienced/hobbyist approach is not be a good idea! IMHO anyway.
Click to expand...

I am not a hobbyist! :) You may want to look at my portfolio... LOL. I think I can handle two 5Ds on tripods with a 70-200mm on one camera and a 2.8 and a 24-70mm 2.8 lens on the other one...:)
 
DanielRutter said:
I definitely wouldn't call this lav a toy. This 20 dollar lav sounds 10x better than my $150 (when I bought it) Rode Videomic.

Call me crazy, but I would say the Azden lav sounds just as good as the one Sennheiser stick with their G3 kits. But hey... I'm not a pro, I don't claim to be.
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Neither of those recommendations inspire great confidence for high quality audio. Keeping a perspective between amateur and pro work, I don't think anyone here is ripping you for using or liking inexpensive gear, but the sennheiser me2 is not very wonderful and by most professional standards is considered a sacrificial anode in a kit. I have kept mine around in case I need a mic to put in harms way. The videomic is great for what it is; a camera mounted mic for improving the onboard mic of a dslr or handycam, but a camera mounted mic in this case isn't going to cut much ice.

The OP is showing up with $7000 worth of cams + lenses and probably needs decent audio. A good rule of thumb for a pro production is the value of the audio gear should equal the value of the cam. The OP might not want to spend that much for this one time deal, but if he hired a sound guy, he would likely show up with at least that much value in his bag. You might argue with that, but again and again folks have appeared on this section and said "hey I just blew my budget on a great cam, now I need great fantastic pro audio for a couple of bones". Keep a perspective to the production values realizing that crap audio will kill all the hard work put into great visuals.

Doing a beach shoot and capturing vows will be no easy task if you factor in breeze, ocean noise, and everything else that happens in a public space. And the OP indicated he didn't necessarily want the cheapo solution. At the very least, the OP needs a dedicated sound person, and equipment that can handle the circumstances, in particular, wind protection and good monitoring.

Grant
 
hasselblad said:
I am not a hobbyist! :) You may want to look at my portfolio... LOL. I think I can handle two 5Ds on tripods with a 70-200mm on one camera and a 2.8 and a 24-70mm 2.8 lens on the other one...:)
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Believe me, the skill-set required of a videographer is quite different from that of a still photographer. The two are separate art forms that just happen to have the common feature of working with lenses and sensors. And on e of those differences is that with stills everything ng revolves around the image. With video, the image itself is secondary to the motion and the sound. An audience will forgive less than perfect picture far more readily than they'll forgive less than perfect audio.
 
And the OP indicated he didn't necessarily want the cheapo solution.
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As we already know. I'm not trying to talk the OP into the cheapo solution at all, I'm just sharing an opinion... much like you, in that he doesn't HAVE to spend $1000s on this.

And I'm sorry to say, but of all the wedding videographers I know... NONE of them ever hire a seperate sound guy. That would take too much from their bottom line, and good audio CAN be had with cheap gear. This is the problem with pro's, and those who do this for the fun of it. Expensive gear doesn't always mean GOOD, nor doesn't cheap gear always mean BAD.
But I digress, the OP now has been given some options to think about. Personally, I'd do away with Videomics... as I think they sound like crap. As I said, the $20 lav I have sounds better than the videomic, which is saying something considering the popularity of the Videomic.

Good luck OP. If you're not being paid much for this, do your best with what you have... and what you feel you can spend on without losing too much of that pay you'll receive. If you're being paid a lot, well... hire a sound guy, or rent someone elses gear.
 
Well, all that aside,

1. you are going to be on on the beach which will require whatever direction you choose to have considerable wind protection.
2. you will NOT want to record to the cameras as their lack of audio performance is very well know.
3. since you dont want to record to the cameras as you will not be able to monitor or adjust on the go in a very dynamic situation, you will need some one who can focus on maintaining good quality levels.
4. at minimum you are probably looking at 2 wireless mics with substantial wind protection and possibly a floating mic for audience or music ambiance.
5. add all this up and you are better off and more cheaply off by hiring an audio guy for a day, if you are dead set on DIY then the cost of the proper kit will be rather high.
6. I do not question your skill as a photographer and I am sure you and your wife are quite competent to grab great imagery, but as stated before good or even decent audio is a very different and just as involved ball of wax.
7. a microphone on the camera is ALWAYS the wrong location for the microphone if you want decent audio.
8. you will want to record audio on a separate recorder and sync to your video edit in post.

Keep reading this forum and look thru the stickies, you will see a common set of principles that are said over and over by the more experienced folks here and as you probably know , these things are said for a very good reason, not to discourage but to inform as to what is required for decent to great audio. which as we all know is just as important than the image.

Cheers and good luck.
 
This can go two ways - hopefully really well, but shooting on a beach is probably one of the worst beginner projects going. Huge numbers of things designed to thwart you at every turn. The biggest problem will be wind and wave noise. A sandy beach is quieter than a shingle one - but it can be really loud. You're using DSLRs that are noted for great pictures and less than good sound, so you'll need to use external recorders. The little bit of foam is not going to be a good enough wind shield in anything other than a gentle breeze. A full zeppelin style cover and furry outer would be an absolute requirement. Remember that you're even going to have to protect the lavs - even if you use the $20 ones, they hate wind - so a small furry cover is essential.

Radio systems do not behave like other electronics items. A cheap mic does not automatically sound bad - the small condensers sold with the cheaper and OEM brands are not as horrible as people seem to think. However, cheap radio systems have big issues with difficult conditions. They tend to not bother with filtering, so any local RF sources that the better makes can cope with, rejecting the interference, will possibly interfere. The cheap ones also don't exist too well where other radio systems are on the go. All very difficult to predict in advance. Some cheap ones, with no RF problems don't sound too bad, until problems arise and they just give up and hum/hiss/crackle or even distort like mad.

So you have to learn RF techniques (ALL radio mics need care and attention for noise free performance), wind noise reduction and all things sound. You have no experience on which to base your purchase decisions, and are buying in the dark.

I don't do weddings, but was at one over the weekend where there was not a video person (they couldn't afford it). I always keep a small Panasonic HD camcorder in the car, so fished it out to take a few clips and give it to them as a moment. The pictures were fine, but the sound from the on-camera mic is absolute rubbish. The vows were very quiet, compared to the background noise, the pictures taken outside with the imported old Ford Mustang they drove off in are obliterated by wind noise that was un-noticed actually standing there - just a gentle breeze. The nearby trees make a whooshing rustling sound and I've just pit music over - hardly anything outside usable at all. You will be on a beach and exposed. If I were you, I'd be worried about how you are going to capture decent sound - it isn't easy. Best of luck
 
Having been involved in Wedding Photography, and having 'briefly' thought about offering combo video-still coverage... I'd recommend renting the lavs and RF equipment. I'd also recommend renting the equipment twice, once some time before the event, to become familiar with how to set things up... and perhaps even a second round to refine. I'd also recommend going to The Beach that is going to be the wedding venue, and check out the situation, with said equipment.

I'd also make it clear that the 'video' is not part of the contractual deliverables... that this is provided as a 'friendly gesture' and that the result may not be up to current video wedding coverage.

Around 2000 or so, I did experiment with capturing a few moments at several weddings with a then 'cheap' handicam. The results were nothing I'd want to offer, and at the time to buy better equipment was too much for what we had in mind to offer... sort of 'wedding moments' than full coverage.

I also agree that most still photographers are not well setup for moving directly to 'video'... Just the form factor of the DSLR does not lend for smooth hand held operation... there's a reason for the shoulder mounts and handles... and the 'all-in-one' style of video and audio...
 
Hasselblad,

You have received some very pro level advice here from people that focus on sound the same way you focus on image. Let's flip the question around so you can see what it is you are asking (or how it sounds to me....reading this thread):

"Hi, I am an audio engineer, and I have this wedding shoot coming up. I have some pro level sound gear, and I have a lot of experience using it. But I need a camera to go with my gear. What cheaper camera do you recommend? So far, I have been recommended a point-and shoot pocket camera to videotape this wedding for my client."

Shooting an event or a wedding is very much akin to doing sound at a major concert. You get one chance to get it right when the performance starts. There is no "cut and reset". So you have to have everything in your favor beforehand. There will be no ADR.

This is something they (your clients) will be reviewing and sharing for years to come and it is VERY personal. It looks like you have the camera equipment aspect down......why go substandard on the audio? I will give you the benefit of the doubt about your video abilities, though video and still ARE 2 different animals (they just use some of the same equipment). Take the "budget" you were going to use on buying some audio gear, and hire a decent audio guy as everyone is telling you. Audio is just as involved as video, and already you have hinted that audio is not something you are familiar enough with to be able to do a decent job at. That is not meant to offend you, just telling you the facts, as I see them.

Hey, I know enough about cameras to do stuff.....but would I take on a shooting a wedding? Not a chance. I wouldn't dare take on that with my level of shooting experience. Weddings can make or break a person's rep in this industry. If I screw it up..........you have the issue of potential lawsuits if money changed hands, people ask recently married couple for recommendations, they will be showing it to EVERYONE........no thanks. To me that is walking a tightrope with no net. So, with my camera experience, I would not even consider shooting a wedding. On the other hand......doing audio for a wedding.......no sweat.

Let me ask one question.....if you had a fast change of light during shooting (cloud cover) or your tripod leg started slipping into the sand killing your horizon.......AND you had clipping on the grooms audio at the same time......production wise......would you be able to handle both issues at the same time? If not (and you wouldn't be able to), your prodction will suffer greatly, especially if it was one of the "moments" they will cherish and highlight to everyone. You have to monitor and make corrections as quickly as possible and not have to sacrifice one for the other.

Quick example: I was doing audio for a wedding, and at the time I still owned my HVX.....we had a video crew, but they asked if I could set up my camera as a safety wide in the back of the location. No problem. Set it up, got it zoomed in just right and focused perfectly. Hit "record" as the ceremony was starting and went back to my audio duties.....easy right? Little did I know....as I was walking back to my mixer.........someone bumped my tripod and knocked my camera off focus and framing. I didn't monitor that aspect because I was busy riding faders all ceremony. RESULT: all of that footage was unusable.

Trust me.......your production will be all the better for it, and this particular wedding video will follow you..... Everyone here is not trying to insult you or make you look bad. They are trying to make your upcoming project the best it can be.
 
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Doc Bernard said:
There will be no ADR.
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I've seen the videographer 'redo' the vows for a couple of weddings...

but would I take on a shooting a wedding? Not a chance.
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If you do, you can hope the couple separates by the time the 'proofs' are ready...

Over the years that the Wife was doing weddings, some number of couples, maybe about 5 or 6, had separated by the time the proof books were done... which for the Wife did take a 'long time', like 1-2 months, since she typically shot about 1500 images... but anyway... I think the quickest separation was about 2 weeks... these sorts of people should have gone to Las Vegas...
 
Doc Bernard said:
The question to ask is......why? Bad audio during the ceremony is my guess.
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I'm almost positive that was the case. I did not see too many 'mic'd up' bride/groom/officiants (things may have changed in that regard in the last ten years...). Often a single mic was centrally located, and the videographer was probably taking off from the sound board for recording the vows. (And sometimes there was no mic at all... even for a church wedding... or alternatively the existing mic wasn't working...). So any sound would have been only through the on camera mic's... definitely no boom operators... Heck, in some churches even getting 'around' the altar was a bozo no no... or even non-flash stills during the ceremony...
 
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