Reasonably priced audio recorders and mics

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pmk396

Well-known member
Hi all,
I am sure someone has already asked this but after a brief search, I couldn't find the answer I was looking for.

Anyway, I am filming with a Panasonic GH1 and my next step is to buy a decent portable digital audio recorder. I was looking at the Zoom H4n but it is a small bit outta my budget (my budget would be under €200 for an audio recorder). I was also looking for one that has an XLR connection for an external mic. It'll basically be used for dialog in short films so mono can be used instead of stereo. Music and sound effects (that require stereo) will be recorded separately on my M-Box.

Something like the Zoom H2 is more in my budget but it doesn't have the XLR sockets. Would I just be better off getting a Zoom H2 and buying the necssary convertor jacks (1/8 to 1/4 jack, 1/4 jack to XLR)?

By the way, I also need some sort of a shotgun/condenser mic that will do a decent job for me. This looks fairly cheap but I was hoping it'd work, any suggestions:-
http://cgi.ebay.ie/NEW-14-37-Inch-C...graphy_CamcorderAccess_RL&hash=item335f73057b

Thanks
 
Just a personal opinion, but the Zoom H4n is pretty much as low as you can go and get any sound quality/functionality at all, and the same applies to mics - get something half decent like the Rode NTG-2. Unless you are strictly a hobbyist I would save my pennies and do it right the first time as you would very quickly come up against the limitations of cheaper gear.
 
Zoom is the cheapest way to get XLR with phantom.

That shotgun you linked to is a piece of crap, and they don't list the brand name or model. That should tell you you're going to get screwed. But one spec should stop you too: Frequency Response: 100-16000Hz. Also stay away from stuff like Azden, which is what this looks like. And your mic there shows some stupid button to put the mic into "Tele" mode? That's a gimmick. Stay away.

You can't force the world to give you a decent way to record by setting your budget too low. The cheapest way out for you without buying something that will ruin your sound quality is a Zoom H4N and a Rode NTG-2. If you buy a Zoom H2 and a converter cable, you won't have phantom power, so you're screwed any way.

H4N $299.00
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/600761-REG/Zoom_H4N_H4n_Handy_Mobile_4_Track.html

NTG-2 $269.00 (Comes with a shock mount and a cable at the same price as the mic alone!)
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/400806-REG/Rode_NTG_2_Battery_or_Phantom.html

We have been looking at the cheapest solutions for what you are asking on this forum since the forum began. This is it. Just save up a little longer. $600.00 is not that much at all to get going. And remember if you want to record indoors you need another mic too!
 
Thanks for the reply unclebob,
It is only a hobby for me and I don't plan on splashing out on anything too pricy at the moment. However, I don't want any of my projects to look or sound too amateurish. I recently got a GH1 which I am really happy with the picture quality. I did a short film recently which had me narrating over so sound recorded during filming wasn't a problem.

Basically, I'm looking for a half decent audio recorder so I can have control over the audio levels during recording. I don't want to rely on the camera's in-built mic or even an external mic connected to the camera because I'll have no control over the audio then, and apparaently the audio is really bad anyway.

I have a few up and coming short films and feature films projects planned and an affordable audio recorder is a must for me.

Would you definitely rule out the following as options for me: Zoom H1 (less than €100), the Zoom H2 (between €150 - €180) or the Zoom H4 (if I'm lucky, I could win it by bidding on eBay for less than €200)?

To be honest, the H4n looks great, but it is a good bit outta budget for me at around ~€340, and if my fiancée knew I spent that kinda money on an audio recorder instead of saving for our wedding, she'd kill me!!....lol..
 
unclebob6958 said:
Just a personal opinion, but the Zoom H4n is pretty much as low as you can go and get any sound quality/functionality at all, and the same applies to mics - get something half decent like the Rode NTG-2. Unless you are strictly a hobbyist I would save my pennies and do it right the first time as you would very quickly come up against the limitations of cheaper gear.
Click to expand...

I'm tending to think the H4 is 'better', as it seems to have the ability to take 'line' levels in, which would allow a preamp to stand between the mic and the recorder. The H4n according the various postings here seems to require attenuation of 'line' levels and then uses the internal preamps, which are noisier than what one might have with an
external preamp.

I've been tracking ebay offerings, and I've noticed a bidding trend, which seems to boost the price of the devices up, good for the seller... not so good for people looking for deals. The trend is that bidding starts very early and 'goes up from there'... a better buyer's strategy for Ebay auctions is to bid late... like in the last 10 seconds (even without an auto bidder...). Then the final prices is close to the initial offered price.

As it is when the bidding starts 5-6 days beforehand, the end price often has 20-30 'upped' antes, leading to a typical average price for an H4 to be about 150-180.

A new H4n can be gotten at around $300. So, 'half new price' for a old model, is a bit more than I like to pay...
 
I just saw an eBay that I can pic up a Rode NTG-2 for about €195 (includes p&p) and a Zoom H4n for €320 (includes p&p). I guess I'm gonna have to put my projects on the long finger because there is no way that I could afford that stuff any time soon, considering that still have to buy the props and costumes for my full feature film that I plan on shooting.

By the way, is there any great difference between the Rode NTG-1 and the Rode NTG-2?
 
One quick note n the Zoom H4. I have one, and yes you can record line level, BUT it drifts terribly. So any audio from the H4 that you try to line up with separate video will go out of sync quickly (within a couple of minutes). This has been fixed with the H4N.
 
NTG-2 is a good mic but from my own testing a poor choice when combined with an H4n. The NTG-2 is not a very hot mic and as a result just doesn't produce enough levels with the H4n at max. I am using an AT 875R which is a hotter mic and well under $200 and works well with the Zoom, but the AT is phantom only and will record about 1.5 hrs on Eneloop AA's in the Zoom, better than standard AA's. The NTG-2 will help with it's own power but is just not very loud in that combo.
 
Chadfish said:
One quick note n the Zoom H4. I have one, and yes you can record line level, BUT it drifts terribly. So any audio from the H4 that you try to line up with separate video will go out of sync quickly (within a couple of minutes). This has been fixed with the H4N.
Click to expand...

Damn, why is nothing easy...

I haven't had time to test my DVX100 being used as the sound capture device, relative to sync over time. I had wanted to get away from tape, but perhaps for the moment, it is better than either H4 or H4n for different reasons.

I tend not to sell things, just put them in to 'deep' retirement...
 
unclebob6958 said:
Just a personal opinion, but the Zoom H4n is pretty much as low as you can go and get any sound quality/functionality at all, and the same applies to mics - get something half decent like the Rode NTG-2. Unless you are strictly a hobbyist I would save my pennies and do it right the first time as you would very quickly come up against the limitations of cheaper gear.
Click to expand...

FWIW, the Tascam DR100 and H4n are both price at $300 at B&H. Both have fans, but the DR100 has some better features IMHO.

Grant
 
Here's what sold me on the Tascam DR-100.

1. Mic pres, to my ears are a little smoother than the Zoom.

2. Multi-battery configuration and the ability of the unit to auto switch between batteries as necessary.

3. Wired remote with a cable long enough that I have attached the remote to my boom and can go into standy, record, and stop without taking a hand off the pole. The remote also has a indicator light showing me whether I'm in standby or record. This has been great to have.

4. The gain is controlled by knobs, rather than buttons making on the fly level adjustment easier. I built a small hip bag the positions the tascam in a way that I easily see the meters and put fingers on the level knob(s)

I have built an external battery pack which I connect to the Tascam power connector. With 8-AA rechargeables in my external pack, I can run 4 hours straight with phantom to my shotgun before it switches to internal batteries, and then will run another 3-1/2 hrs before everything is dead. On the last two shoots I went on, we were there all day (12+hr day), I rolled over 3 hrs of actual audio, and I never had to switch out batteries. When all else is dead, you can pop in 2-AAs and get about 40 minutes with phantom.

The downside:

I think the zoom internal mics are a bit better.

I typically have to run the Tascam pre wide open when using lower output shotguns, specifically my ME-80.

The internal battery in the Tascam cannot be charged with an external battery charger so I either need another tascam to keep batteries charged, or the unit will be out of action for the 3 hrs it takes to charge the internal (I do this overnight while I'm also charging my external pack.



Chadfish said:
How about listing them Grant?
Click to expand...
 
Thanks grant. I have a friend that I pointed to either the Zoom or the Tascam. It's a hard decision between the two.
 
Sorry for jumping in but I just went thru choosing between the two and so far, I'm not disappointed that I bought the tascam.

I'm hoping by spring to add the Edirol r-44 oade machine to my inventory.

Chadfish said:
Thanks grant. I have a friend that I pointed to either the Zoom or the Tascam. It's a hard decision between the two.
Click to expand...
 
Sorry I was gone for a bit.

+1 exactly to what gpforet said. I had a H4 before so I can't say about the H4n.

More external controls and a much better battery system are the real selling points. The display and gain controls are also good. Overall build is better, though not outstanding. I do think the pres are better on the tascam, and yes, the mics are not quite as good, although you do get both omnis and hypers to choose from.

Like the Zoom, you get phantom on both channels or not, no individual switching, which is pretty lame. The only real problem with the DR-100 was getting enough gain out of dynamic mics like RE50s. You probably should be thinking mixer-preamp if you go dynamic. Not great news there, but phantom powered mics do just fine.

You don't have to, but will probably want to buy the external power wart (which isn't included) for $22 so I guess the Tascam is slightly more.

If you dig back, I posted some DR-100 sound samples with some different mics about 5-6 mos ago.

Grant
 
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