Real simple sound editing question. Confused about dB terminology.

P

panag3

New member
I'm new to sound, and English isn't my first language, so I apologize for this real basic question, as you would think I could find this info somewhere online, but alas I can not.

When someone says to set your db levels to "-18 db" are they saying to set the db levels to that number, or are they saying that -18 is the number that should be shown on the audio meter in Premiere pro and other editing programs?

This is one of the videos I'm watching that uses this terminology. They mention (at the 3:22 mark) where to set your db levels to be in the "safe" range for online delivery. Can someone help me understand what this means?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FXQvlqYiopM&ab_channel=samandniko

Your help is greatly appreciated
 
panag3 said:
When someone says to set your db levels to "-18 db" are they saying to set the db levels to that number, or are they saying that -18 is the number that should be shown on the audio meter in Premiere pro and other editing programs?
Click to expand...
Can you explain what you think is the difference between those two? It seems to me that they are two different ways of saying the same thing.

Remember that getting the BALANCE right between dialog, music, effects, Foley, etc. is not a matter of numbers. It is like watching people cook by putting in a dash of this or a pinch of that or a half-handful of something else (in other words not actually measuring, but combining "to taste")

If the music is too loud or the dialog is too soft, you won't be able to understand what they are saying. It makes no difference what the actual dB numbers are.

After you have the mix proportions correct, setting the overall final mix level is a matter of knowing what the destination will be. There are several standards for average and peak levels depending on where the production is going.
 
"There are several standards for average and peak levels depending on where the production is going"
Yes indeedy, it used to be a reference levels were -20dBFS with peaks not exceeding -10dBFS (in N. America). After the OP learns about reference and peak levels, he or she can look forward to ATSC and EBU loudness levels, which are pretty much much the standard today.... I won't go into the recommended DVD/Blu-ray and streaming levels .
Good and simple do not usually apply to audio..
 
to answer the simple part. They mean to set your levels so that the meters are reading -18. They are going to bounce around a lot but if they are bouncing around -18 that is what they mean.

That said -18 is probably on the low side today. A good practice is to set your dialog levels with nothing else playing. Then add the other tracks one "type" at a time, so maybe music, them SFX, and balance the new tracks so they fit with the dialog track. In pretty much any show that has dialog the dialog is more important than any other sound element, so everything else needs to work around being able to understand the dialog.
 
Errr…?

The video referred to by the OP says their recommendation for the master track is from 0 to -18dB. That is, the peak is right at the top just below clipping (as it should be). You definitely don't want to mix out your audio so that is "bounces around" the -18dB mark.

I learned the general recommendation for audio was -6 to -12 dB for the voice track. If you accept that the voice is the hero track you want to have it peaking pretty high. In your video, they even say that they aim for peaks around -1 to -5dB. This is for stuff like YouTube videos.

Few things are more annoying that weak audio. It's easy to turn down the volume, but might not be so easy to boost it on a portable device in an airplane/train.
 
There is also the question of recording/tracking vs. mixing.
In the case of original recording (or "tracking" in the music biz), you want to get the maximum signal to noise ratio (SNR).
So you want to record the dialog (or whatever) as HIGH AS POSSIBLE, but WITHOUT CLIPPING.
People who specialize in audio get to know their gear (microphones mixers, recorders, etc.)
They can tell almost without looking for a given mic at a given distance with a source of some particular sound-pressure level (SPL) where to set the gain and record-level controls. And they know what the characteristics of their gear (particularly the mic preamp). So they know where a level is "down in the mud" of the noise floor because it is too low. Or conversely, they know how much headroom they have in an analog circuit, or where "full scale" maximum value is in a digital circuit.

For people for whom audio is a secondary issue, you find people recommending certain prescribed dB levels. And perhaps that is useful. But it is generally a rather conservative general guideline and NOT something to be slavishly tied to.

The levels for original recording should be optimized for maximum signal-to-noise ratio. They have essentially NOTHING TO DO with the final mix levels.

THEN once you have everything recorded, you can MIX the various elements (dialog, music, effects, etc.) so that they fit together well (the music isn't overpowering the dialog unless that is intended, etc.) And compressing and/or limiting and EQ and other level and spectrum processing is done to achieve the desired mix.

THEN you can set the overall level of the mix to meet the requirements of the customer/destination. CD or DVD or MP3 or broadcast, etc. etc.

IMHO, setting specific dB ranges as shown in that video is overly simplistic and almost does a disservice to the process.
 
I agree you don't want your levels bouncing around -18 but the OP asked what they meant by setting levels not if what they said was the right thing to do.

You should never have a peak over -3. Anything over -3 on normal meters will cause some distortion in the D/A conversion.

Standards vary but as a rule anything for broadcast will come back to you if you peak over -6.

-12 is a good "bouncing around" point. I think -18 is still around because it was a reference level for Nagra Reel to Reel recorders. That was set low to CYA if the actor went berserk.

I didn't look at the video, so good point on the advice being less that great.
AndreeOnline said:
Errr…?

The video referred to by the OP says their recommendation for the master track is from 0 to -18dB. That is, the peak is right at the top just below clipping (as it should be). You definitely don't want to mix out your audio so that is "bounces around" the -18dB mark.

I learned the general recommendation for audio was -6 to -12 dB for the voice track. If you accept that the voice is the hero track you want to have it peaking pretty high. In your video, they even say that they aim for peaks around -1 to -5dB. This is for stuff like YouTube videos.

Few things are more annoying that weak audio. It's easy to turn down the volume, but might not be so easy to boost it on a portable device in an airplane/train.
Click to expand...
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top