Real or Fake Sennheiser MKH 416?

C

Christian Filippone

Active member
I've been on the lookout for a good price on the Sennheiser MKH 416 & thought I found it on ebay.

The seller described the Mic as been "99% new exhibition promote item"

I ended winning the auction & payed only $460 & thought I was lucky & got a bargain!

But after receiving the Mic & carefully inspecting it I found that the item is brand new & never been opened.

I thought it was a bit fishy since it was advertised as "99% new exhibition item" so you would I expected there to be at least some signs of use.

Also on the outside of the plastic case there seems to be a finger print on the painted blue senheisser logo. Looks like whoever painted the case accidently touched the logo before the paint dried.

This is meant to be a German product so you would expect it to be 100% perfect without any mistakes.

I havent tested it yet since Im still in the office but already made up half my mind that it's probably a deal too good to be true!

Is there any way to spot a Fake? Serials? Does anyone have any pictures of the guts of an original mic?

any advice would be much appreciated!



below is a link to another Mic they have on sale. Probably the fifth I've seen since I first bought the Mic.


http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/SENNHEIS...s_MJ&hash=item56551af5a2&_uhb=1#ht_500wt_1180


Christian
 
You got it for an expensive Chinese price - of course it's a fake. Check the screen printing. On the real mic, a nail does NOT scratch the text off, on the copies the screen printing sits on top of the mic, and is raised a little, and will chip off quite easily. If you had paid around $150 AU dollars, I'd judge this about the right price - however, I sadly think you paid the right price for a real shop soiled Sennheiser. reading the ad, there are clues - the sale being classed as 'used' is a frequent ploy to get around ebay scrutiny on Sennheiser - when they clamped down on copy radio mics, they started advertising them as second hand. It also prevents to a degree people assuming 'counterfeit' by appearing to be a one-off real sale. The thing with the exhibition doesn't ring true because dealers in Hong Kong importing real product into the country, then showing them off at exhibitions doesn't really work - do they actually try to sell expensive German mics in a country full of counterfeit electronics?

I suppose the decider on what to do next will be based on how does it perform? If it sounds and behaves like a Sennheiser then try to put your doubts to one side. If it sounds or behaves poorly, then return it. I note his feedback shows he has sold lots of these, and people have been happy, paying around the same price - so no complaints. Multiple exhibition stock is of course amazingly unlikely.

I guess the best news is that if you keep it, use it, wear it a bit - then you still have a saleable product to recover your money. I have one Sennheiser radio system where at some point some crafty devil has swapped their copy with my real one! It sounds the same, but I found out when I discovered one mic seemed to have more handling noise, and when I tried to rack up the receiver to discover the mounting holes had no threads! I've still kept it - and written it off in my head. I think you've been conned, but if the mic is good???????
 
As a side note I have been looking to get some sennheiser 280 pro headphones and normally you have to pay full price for them as they are rarely discounted, but I noticed recently that you can now get them for less than £90 from Hong Kong so I suspect there is a new factory churning out fake pro kit, either that or like other manufacturers sennheiser are now making them in china to cut down costs but still charging us full $$$ for them. http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Genuine-S..._HomeAudioHiFi_Headphones&hash=item1e6bbd804f

The mic looks very well made and if it sounds the same as a 416 then I would be well happy with it for a bargain price, I too have a sennheiser hand held radio mic that cost me £99 from china but it seems to do the job and even has the threaded holes that Paul's has missing.

If sennheiser are making all this kit in china now it may also be that they are production rejects due to bad printing or finishing etc and they are being sold without sennheiser's knowledge. Quite a few more here: http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/vpower.hk...h=item20d1a60c60&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2562

I bought one of these panasonic mic's a couple of years ago and it seems to be genuine and certainly is very useable: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Microphon...K_Photography_Microphones&hash=item3cd0fe21aa

That one doesn't have the printing on but mine has panasonic aj-MC700P and when I took it apart it seems to be very well made and identical to the genuine one that came with my HPX371 camera.
 
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GaryNattrass said:
If sennheiser are making all this kit in china now it may also be that they are production rejects due to bad printing or finishing etc and they are being sold without sennheiser's knowledge.
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Sennheiser do *not* manufacture radiomics or professional microphones in China.

The radiomics are made in Europe and the USA and all the pro. microphones are made in Germany.

Sennheiser only, as far as I know, make the lower cost consumer products in China.
 
I have not read or heard about any 416 'fakes'.. at least so far. However I would be skeptical of the ones offered on eBay. The photos are low resolution and even in a casual 'hands on' inspection is difficult to ID. I would not be surprised since there are 'Sennheiser' G2/3 counterfeits about.
 
So far, since the UK switched wireless from channel 69 down to channel 38, the horizon is much clearer now on the counterfeit front because it seems channel 38 is not one the Chinese can easily produce kit on, because in China, the military use it, and you don't mess with the Government! I buy legit chinese product and last week was offered AKG 414s, and Martin pro loudspeakers. The pictures are clearly genuine ones lifted from the official web sites. If you buy 50, you can have the AKG branding replaced with your own!
 
Christian’s story is very similar to mine. Here is the link to the microphone I purchased in May and am returning: http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemVersion&&item=271186180238&view=all&ssPageName=ADME%3AX%3ACPSOB%3AGB%3A1123&tid=0&guest=1
I was using this microphone while my other MKH416 was out for repair. I can tell you that as an owner of real 416 I could not tell that the new one a fake by looking at. What was happening was that this microphone is sensitive to electronic noise. I could hear the noise from electronic lines buried under the ground. When my microphone arrived back from repair I tested both microphones by holding each one against the electronic panel of my oven. The new microphone clearly had noise.
I sent the Microphone into Sennheiser for repair since I had won it at auction for such a cheap price. On Friday Sennheiser contacted me to tell me that the microphone was a fake. My real 416 I purchased about 8 years ago on eBay for roughly $650 and I have been very happy with it but, time and changed and there now seem to be many counterfeit ones on the market.
 
John Willett said:
Sennheiser do *not* manufacture radiomics or professional microphones in China.

The radiomics are made in Europe and the USA and all the pro. microphones are made in Germany.

Sennheiser only, as far as I know, make the lower cost consumer products in China.
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I was gonna say that John Willett should chime in here. He knows a LOT about Sennheiser mics, and I bet if you just handed it to him he'd know right away. I've seen fake stuff on Ebay all the time, and I stay away from it at all costs.
 
pvanscherpe said:
On Friday Sennheiser contacted me to tell me that the microphone was a fake. My real 416 I purchased about 8 years ago on eBay for roughly $650 and I have been very happy with it but, time and changed and there now seem to be many counterfeit ones on the market.
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This is quite shocking as I had never heard of a fake 416 until now.

Thanks for the heads up.
 
I just received my Sennheiser 416 back from Sennheiser and I wanted to list the serial number here just for reference.
On the microphone: 111505 - this is located where the XLR cable plugs in.
On the box: 00111505 - the printing on the box also had it the model printed as 3U

best wishes to all of youi.
 
From my perspective, for something as fundamental as a Senny 416 to the stable of microphones that you carry on to set, why would you risk buying a damaged, tired or fake microphone? For most a 416 is going to be one of the most used mics in the kit, if not THE most.

I hope that people who are considering buying essential mics in the future give a second thought to saving a few hundred bucks on your workhorse microphone.
 
There are HUGE quantities of fake goods in use by people who have bought them, that are performing perfectly well, and their owners, either in ignorance or awareness are quite happy. With certain products, even experienced users have been hoodwinked. The older counterfeits were rubbish, the latest ones could be sold with a Chinese brand on it for sensible money and people would buy them. The recording forums are full of Chinese products getting excellent reviews. The snag is simply they tweak designs and copy packaging to produce counterfeit good, which can generate additional margin. Thinking you have a 'brand' mic, ad discovering on having a repair that it is dodgy shows how good some can be. Up to a certain standard/price-point, cheap mics sound bad. However, above this price-point, they sound quite nice and are perfectly usable. At the very top end the ultra end of the microphone ranges sit products that seem to sell more on opinions, beliefs and folk-law rather than specifications. I seriously doubt that many users could spot them in a blind test, but the specs may well suggest that they are more capable or truthful, or uncoloured or all the other justifications for 4 digit price tags. If you have expensive ultra mics, then your recordings must be better quality - seems to be the premise, but my own opinion, supported by endless comments on forums like this is that bad sound is usually not the fault of the microphone, but the user.

I'd bet an expert with a cheaper mic could make a better recording than a newbie with an exotic one!

So would a Chinese counterfeit 416 produce bad sound? Frankly, I doubt it!
 
paulears said:
There are HUGE quantities of fake goods in use by people who have bought them, that are performing perfectly well, and their owners, either in ignorance or awareness are quite happy. With certain products, even experienced users have been hoodwinked. The older counterfeits were rubbish, the latest ones could be sold with a Chinese brand on it for sensible money and people would buy them. The recording forums are full of Chinese products getting excellent reviews. The snag is simply they tweak designs and copy packaging to produce counterfeit good, which can generate additional margin. Thinking you have a 'brand' mic, ad discovering on having a repair that it is dodgy shows how good some can be. Up to a certain standard/price-point, cheap mics sound bad. However, above this price-point, they sound quite nice and are perfectly usable. At the very top end the ultra end of the microphone ranges sit products that seem to sell more on opinions, beliefs and folk-law rather than specifications. I seriously doubt that many users could spot them in a blind test, but the specs may well suggest that they are more capable or truthful, or uncoloured or all the other justifications for 4 digit price tags. If you have expensive ultra mics, then your recordings must be better quality - seems to be the premise, but my own opinion, supported by endless comments on forums like this is that bad sound is usually not the fault of the microphone, but the user.

I'd bet an expert with a cheaper mic could make a better recording than a newbie with an exotic one!

So would a Chinese counterfeit 416 produce bad sound? Frankly, I doubt it!
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I am rather worried at this post that seems to be condoning illegal and criminal activity. :shocked:

Fakes are illegal and if a fake is returned to a manufacturer for repair he is within his rights to destroy it without offering any compensation.

Fakes are often used by organised crime for money laundering and I know that the Police with Customs often seize and destroy fakes and that both Shure and Sennheiser cooperate fully with this.

Someone selling a fake can be prosecuted.

I would not touch a fake with a bargepole.
 
Okay so I was scammed by this and some googling led me here. The eBay user is tubeclassic and he has an alternate account named oldlady.2010. I buy the 99% new blah blah listing and when I receive the item, I'm excited to test it out. I've used a 416 before because my buddy has one so I know what it should sound like and when I heard this microphone, I was appalled. My excitement and giddiness went away so fast, my stomach felt sick. So I contact tubeclassic and tell him the item is fake and he tells me to return it for a refund. tubeclassic then puts my microphone on ebay under his alternate account. I didn't send my package right away so he kept bugging me every day for a tracking number. I finally send it back and he gives me a refund and some extra to cover postage. I was sad to see that a few days later, some poor sap bought my fake mic and wrote feedback that said the mic was perfect A+++ and all that.

Anyway, I haven't left any feedback for this guy and I notice that he has taken everything off his store. I think I'll wait to post feedback so he can have that lingering negative feedback on his account as long as possible.
 
paulears said:
There are HUGE quantities of fake goods in use by people who have bought them, that are performing perfectly well, and their owners, either in ignorance or awareness are quite happy. ...
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Wow. This is so wrong on so many levels it's hard to believe that someone other than an eBay fraudster would write it.
If any of the companies that actually manufacture any of the fakes were any good at all, they'd just sell them under their own name. They don't so they have no reason to worry about making something that actually works well or have to worry about brand reputation. You will get a steaming pile of crap made to look like the real product, but not perform anywhere near as well. You are wasting your money.
The income lost to fakes impacts the price of the real thing. It makes it more expensive and starves the company of R&D money to improve their products.
As John pointed out, it's illegal and you could lose your gear at import or from the manufacturer seizing it. I also doubt that your insurer would cover it if stolen.
Beyond that practical and economic reasons to avoid the fakes, there's the question of morality and ethics. Is this the world you want to live in? Where everything is up for grabs and f$$& the people who actually innovate or create?
 
Andrius's post is quite wrong. Are you really saying that I'm an ebay fraudster for having the temerity to write that there are HUGE quantities of fakes in use? Get real!

I loaned a friend 4 Shure Beta 58s. He liked them, so he bought some. Against my counterfeit advice, he bought them from ebay sellers rather than Shure dealers, and at a gig last week, we had real issues with one. A muddy sound, that when eq'd was very prone to feedback. Pulling it apart, I'm pretty certain he bought a fake with 3 real ones. There are very few manufacturers as we know them. They are small, almost cottage industries. They will but the capsules from the unit in the same building, buy the preamp from another business in the building, and the housing from another. There is no brand as such, and you can have whatever you like printed on them. The statement about wasting your money could be wrong, but in nearly five years of importing, only one batch was horrible, most good, and a few simply excellent. I bought a small batch (5) of multi pattern stereo mics, very similar to the old Neumann SM69, and I've kept one which I use quite regularly, and I love the sound it produces. There are many established dealers who sell the very microphones you call a pile of crap with their own branding - rather than Shure or Sennheiser which they are copies of. Indeed, the SM57 copies are actually so good, that when sold at £40 - people love them. I am not in any way defending the Chinese practice of passing off these copies as real, but the fact (as mentioned above) is that people who don't know better can be fooled. This does not make the product crap.

Of course it's illegal to import counterfeits, but responsible people do not import illegal goods and sell them on. Chinese products also have European Conformality labelling, but most seem to really be Chinese Export labels that are slightly different - again, meaningless.

As this topic points out quite well, if it's too good to be true, then it's dodgy. I hate the ebay sellers who are ripping people off, but often the sellers seem to be selling huge quantities.

I've become quite expert at spotting the fakes now, and have NEVER sold a counterfeit item in my life - so perhaps you can understand why I'm narked you insinuate I'm a fraudster - but the fact remains that many people who have bought them must be happy, or perhaps just ignorant.

John is into esoteric, very accurate and expensive microphones, and I'm firmly centred on good quality value for money products. None of us is promoting counterfeits.

Sennheiser suffered very badly from counterfeit microphones and radio mics. Dr Beats headphones, so popular with the kids were plagued with dodgy imports, and Shure had in-ear headphones and of course dynamic mics copied (55, 57 and 58 in big quantities). Shure had so many dodgy radio mics that when they went wrong, Shure notified customers and sold them genuine ones at very special prices direct. For what it's worth, guitars and lighting equipment are also being counterfeited too.

The average punter, wanting a mic for amateur use, may well find the two counterfeits he can afford more useful than one genuine one. Until they compare it with a real one, they will be happy.

People seem to rave over the SE brand microphones, but I can buy identical ones from one supplier, much cheaper.

Lasty, UK and US manufacturers now have product made in China, to UK/US specifications. What do you think they do with B stock? It gets rebranded with a new name and sold off. I suspect the brand owner believes the B stock items are destroyed? Or maybe they just don't want to know?
 
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