re-sizing titles
- Thread starter sean90291
- Start date
I think your problem will be solved, maybe not to 100% due to the low resoution of NTSC or PAL versus the big screen, after you have read this: Great Titles With the DV Codecsean90291 said:
/Roger
There's some basic concepts I'm just not getting in After Effects. I didn't think I was a moron. But maybe...hm...
Thing is, I'm just having trouble making nice pretty text for titles that survives blowing up to bigger exhibition. Like if I want to project it on a film screen and keep the font pretty, without aliasing. And I keep getting told online (my only source of help in these regards) to just re-size the text in After Effects. I can only assume that means just make the font bigger. I think that's what it means.
So, here is my basic total moronic confusion: if I make the font size like 1000, it won't even fit in the screen. I'm just sorta confused about some very very basic principle here, and I'm not figuring it out.
Thing is, I'm just having trouble making nice pretty text for titles that survives blowing up to bigger exhibition. Like if I want to project it on a film screen and keep the font pretty, without aliasing. And I keep getting told online (my only source of help in these regards) to just re-size the text in After Effects. I can only assume that means just make the font bigger. I think that's what it means.
So, here is my basic total moronic confusion: if I make the font size like 1000, it won't even fit in the screen. I'm just sorta confused about some very very basic principle here, and I'm not figuring it out.
hvx_germanboy
Well-known member
Maybe you should try to follow the advices from Rogers Link on crativecow first, and then see how it works.
As is written there and others explained allready, there is a limit if you compress it to dv.
If you do a blowup, or you wanna screen it big, then you would have to find an alternative output like digibeta for example.
But this is probably not in your ptice range, so try to fillow the links advice as best as possible!
And NO, you shouldnt size your font on 1000, you just shouldnt do it less then 20 lines and not with the wrong font styles..good luck!
As is written there and others explained allready, there is a limit if you compress it to dv.
If you do a blowup, or you wanna screen it big, then you would have to find an alternative output like digibeta for example.
But this is probably not in your ptice range, so try to fillow the links advice as best as possible!
And NO, you shouldnt size your font on 1000, you just shouldnt do it less then 20 lines and not with the wrong font styles..good luck!
Steve_Arm
Well-known member
Look sean,
every broadcasr format has different sizes (width & height). In AE what you see is what you get. If the font looks as it should look then it's ok (beware for the OpenGL preview).
So watching on television you have a composition size of 720x480. Now making the same thing for film, you have to change the composition size, over 4K or 2K.
From what I understand that's the issue?
every broadcasr format has different sizes (width & height). In AE what you see is what you get. If the font looks as it should look then it's ok (beware for the OpenGL preview).
So watching on television you have a composition size of 720x480. Now making the same thing for film, you have to change the composition size, over 4K or 2K.
From what I understand that's the issue?
The issue is this stuff is still beyond me I guess, as a new filmmaker. All I know is, I create a title in After Effects (a "text layer"). Add an effect to that layer so that my white type on black background looks a bit more interesting. And voila, I have a real crappy, choppy looking title when I bring the uncompressed avi file into my Avid timeline and burn it to DVD. It just looks like really bad quality, low res fonts. My composition settings are set to DV, 23.976 fps, non-square pixels, 4:3. Perhaps you cannot create high quality titles right in After Effects? Maybe I need to use Illustrator or Photoshop? But I would think it's not so hard to create words on a screen with enough resolution to be blown up bigger.
If what I see is what I get in After Effects, then I'd be happy. Because on my computer monitor, in the After Effects comp window which is about 4" x 3" in real dimensions, the titles look perfect--nice smooth edges, no aliasing. But on the DVD on my big TV they look like crap.
If you've watched the Herofest entries, I noticed some titles have some of the bad effect I'm talking about here, like Cryogenic's opening titles in his short, "TSI."
If what I see is what I get in After Effects, then I'd be happy. Because on my computer monitor, in the After Effects comp window which is about 4" x 3" in real dimensions, the titles look perfect--nice smooth edges, no aliasing. But on the DVD on my big TV they look like crap.
If you've watched the Herofest entries, I noticed some titles have some of the bad effect I'm talking about here, like Cryogenic's opening titles in his short, "TSI."
hvx_germanboy
Well-known member
Ok Sean, once again...
first i am not from pal country, so i am not sure about your exact 4:3 settings, but you can do it this way: import your avis in the AE bin, then drag and drop one of those .avi into your small "create a new composition"-icon and it should create the right settings for you project.
After you have done your work in AE and you want to export it, make sure that the settings in the render queue are set to "best settings" and choose the right recomprssion in your "output module", maybe you try a "losless" once, to make sure it is not a loss of quality in compression.
Anyway, there is a loss of quality when you convert it to mpeg finally, but this shouldnt make yout texts look crappy.
AE is deffinitly the right way to go for titles, if it doesnt work, maybe you can find a person around you that might help you in the beginning, AE is not the easiest program!
Good luck and keep us updated!
first i am not from pal country, so i am not sure about your exact 4:3 settings, but you can do it this way: import your avis in the AE bin, then drag and drop one of those .avi into your small "create a new composition"-icon and it should create the right settings for you project.
After you have done your work in AE and you want to export it, make sure that the settings in the render queue are set to "best settings" and choose the right recomprssion in your "output module", maybe you try a "losless" once, to make sure it is not a loss of quality in compression.
Anyway, there is a loss of quality when you convert it to mpeg finally, but this shouldnt make yout texts look crappy.
AE is deffinitly the right way to go for titles, if it doesnt work, maybe you can find a person around you that might help you in the beginning, AE is not the easiest program!
Good luck and keep us updated!
PUNCH
Active member
I've never been crazy about titles and graphics in general that are compressed in the DV codec. Furthermore, I've never been terribly pleased with mpeg compressions from DV to mpeg2 for DVD authoring. So your problem doesn't surprise me at all. For starters, the titles will probably never look as good as they do in AE on your monitor, but you need to control the degredation. I output graphics out of AE to either the unlossy animation codec or to an uncompressed 8 or 10 bit codec. Taking that into a DV timeline will require a render which will result in loss of quality, but at least you know its not the AE ouput, and maybe you'll see a slight improvement..dunno
I edit standard def with uncompressed codecs. The text looks great! But you need a fast Raid and controller card to pull this off. Going from a High Res uncompressed codec to mpeg2 for DVD will also result in better DVD output. Still not as good as AE, still not as good as uncompressed Standard Def, but better than what your current workflow allows.
If you can't do Uncompressed, you might need to work in a lower quality codec to do your edit, and then figure out a work flow that would allow you to get back to a high quality codec to create your mpeg file. You might try editing your video in Avid, then create a quicktime that you can bring into AE. Do all your title work in AE and render the titles and video out in a high quality codec. Take that file and compress it to mpeg2 for DVD authoring. That should do it. Your titles never touch a lossy codec until the very last step.
Let me know if this helps
I edit standard def with uncompressed codecs. The text looks great! But you need a fast Raid and controller card to pull this off. Going from a High Res uncompressed codec to mpeg2 for DVD will also result in better DVD output. Still not as good as AE, still not as good as uncompressed Standard Def, but better than what your current workflow allows.
If you can't do Uncompressed, you might need to work in a lower quality codec to do your edit, and then figure out a work flow that would allow you to get back to a high quality codec to create your mpeg file. You might try editing your video in Avid, then create a quicktime that you can bring into AE. Do all your title work in AE and render the titles and video out in a high quality codec. Take that file and compress it to mpeg2 for DVD authoring. That should do it. Your titles never touch a lossy codec until the very last step.
Let me know if this helps
Hey Punch. That helps greatly. I think titles are more complex than I realized! And I found this article that probably helps explain my problems with ugly titles (I actually found it when I was cleaning out under my bed and a magazine opened to this very page). Providence to be sure:
What's a "properly created title"? Folks with a computer graphics or print background are always irritated by this topic because a technically correct NTSC title is actually blurry. NTSC video has trouble handling sharp changes in contrast, so the change from black to white--technically known in analog terms as risetime--must be somewhate gradual. In practical terms, this means that all sharp, high-contrast edges should be relieved with heavy antialiasing or blurring.
Graphics programs such as Photoshop typically use a gentle antialising that operates in all directions equally. Professional video character generators will use a stronger antialising that operates primarily horizontally, along the scan line.
Computer graphics simply don't display well in NTSC unless they are treated with soft edges. The DV codec is titghtly designed from optimal performance with legal video, so edges that are too sharp or color that falls outside of NTSC-legal spec stress the codec and cause numerous problems. And remember that those edges will cause the same problems on the viewer's television screen at home.
If you want to create the best looking titles possible in the DV codec, habitually use a contrasting outline and drop shadow on your titles. For superimposed titles, this is practically de rigueur because it helps legibility against a variety of background video. Adding a two-pixel outline also helps to mask any problems with chroma channel changes on awkward curves or slanted lines when compressed in the DV codec--the visual edge of the letter is now defined by the luminance channel.
Software engineer Adam Wilt has an amusing story about illegal titles. Wilt was the software project leader for the development of the Abekas A72 Video Character Generator in the early 90s. Many broadcasters used to require that superimposed titles remain below 80 IRE to avoid ringing--an edge artifact around the letter caused by abrupt risetime, which can cause buzzing in the audio when the video is modulated for broadcast. The A72 engineers carefully tailored the font risetimes to match the NTSC specs precisely so that titles up to 100 IRE could be generated without ringing. They were chagrined to find that some producers had gotten so used to the over-driven, illegal ringing look that they didn't like the A72's serence, NTSC-legal look. Go figure. But remember--NTSC still has ridid rules, whether you happen to like them or not. Breaking them will result in problems somewhere, even if you can't see it on your computer monitor.
What's a "properly created title"? Folks with a computer graphics or print background are always irritated by this topic because a technically correct NTSC title is actually blurry. NTSC video has trouble handling sharp changes in contrast, so the change from black to white--technically known in analog terms as risetime--must be somewhate gradual. In practical terms, this means that all sharp, high-contrast edges should be relieved with heavy antialiasing or blurring.
Graphics programs such as Photoshop typically use a gentle antialising that operates in all directions equally. Professional video character generators will use a stronger antialising that operates primarily horizontally, along the scan line.
Computer graphics simply don't display well in NTSC unless they are treated with soft edges. The DV codec is titghtly designed from optimal performance with legal video, so edges that are too sharp or color that falls outside of NTSC-legal spec stress the codec and cause numerous problems. And remember that those edges will cause the same problems on the viewer's television screen at home.
If you want to create the best looking titles possible in the DV codec, habitually use a contrasting outline and drop shadow on your titles. For superimposed titles, this is practically de rigueur because it helps legibility against a variety of background video. Adding a two-pixel outline also helps to mask any problems with chroma channel changes on awkward curves or slanted lines when compressed in the DV codec--the visual edge of the letter is now defined by the luminance channel.
Software engineer Adam Wilt has an amusing story about illegal titles. Wilt was the software project leader for the development of the Abekas A72 Video Character Generator in the early 90s. Many broadcasters used to require that superimposed titles remain below 80 IRE to avoid ringing--an edge artifact around the letter caused by abrupt risetime, which can cause buzzing in the audio when the video is modulated for broadcast. The A72 engineers carefully tailored the font risetimes to match the NTSC specs precisely so that titles up to 100 IRE could be generated without ringing. They were chagrined to find that some producers had gotten so used to the over-driven, illegal ringing look that they didn't like the A72's serence, NTSC-legal look. Go figure. But remember--NTSC still has ridid rules, whether you happen to like them or not. Breaking them will result in problems somewhere, even if you can't see it on your computer monitor.