Re: Setup: 2 x Sennheiser EW112P G3 + Zoom H4N

[ectobuilder]

Re: Setup: 2 x Sennheiser EW112P G3 + Zoom H4N

I have this setup, 2 x Sennheiser EW112P G3 with Omni Directional Mics and a Zoom H4N Recorder.

We're doing a Couple Video Portrait for the Wedding Reception. In this portrait the Couple will be walking and talking through the park.

Both Sennheiser Transmitters will be plugged into the Zoom H4N via XLR. So the question is do I record in Stereo or in MTR?

 

[GaryNattrass]

If it can record all four tracks at the same time I would use MTR mode as you can then record the two radio mic's on two channels and the internal mic's on the other two to pick up effects, that way you have more options available in the edit.

The other option is to just record the radio mic's as a stereo file but for post production it will be better to split them so you can adjust them independently.

 

[ectobuilder]

If it can record all four tracks at the same time I would use MTR mode as you can then record the two radio mic's on two channels and the internal mic's on the other two to pick up effects, that way you have more options available in the edit.

The other option is to just record the radio mic's as a stereo file but for post production it will be better to split them so you can adjust them independently.

Excellent point in terms of being able to adjust audio levels in post for each channel.

Question: Having both couples talking side-by-side (with separate lav mics on each), will we hear a bit of an echo?

 

[paulears]

nope - although there is a well known problem when two mics at the same distance from a voice tend to phase together and this creates a hollow, strange sound. As long as the distance between each mouth to mic is less than the subjects mouth to mouth distance it's rarely an issue. It can be a problem if you have two miked subjects and they have to whisper into each others ears, or worse, talk to each other just before a kiss. Even if you get the problem, as the issue is caused by the two mics being at almost the same distance, then just one of them will probably have decent audio from both subjects. Sound problems caused by path delays tend to start with phase, then as the time delay increases become reverberation, and only turning into echo when we can hear two distinct events from one sound source.

So in boxy type rooms, sound problems are going to be reverberation based. Even in buildings like churches, there's usually not echo - just huge amounts of reverb. Most people tend to determine before or after 30-50 milliseconds as the cut off between reverb and echo. My a strange quirk of the maths - a foot distance is about a millisecond - so a hard surface 40ft away will produce a defined second 'clap' when the subject claps their hands. Under this distance - the clap just sounds longer. With a room with four hard walls and a ceiling - that's the process that is happening that makes the room sound, well, like a room. In a church - the path lengths mean you should really hear an echo - but the multitude of different paths sound can take and be reflected by hard surfaces just hides the 'echo' effect. The clever bit is that the distance between the source and the first surface - is what our ears use to suggest size - once it starts to be reflected it's just reverb. Better reverb units can change both the length of the decay time of the reverb and the gap between the source and the earliest reflection - clever stuff.

Up until very recently, reverb could not be removed from sound, but the audio people are now raving about a plugin for their sound kit that actually does it - not a reason for not getting it right first, of course, but at least now there is some repair possible.

In the question here - if the two mics get too close there will be coloration of the sound - but it doesn't get bad until they are really close. Mind you in post you can move them slightly left and right from centre and this also helps the problem. Sorry for the long-winded reply.

 

[jamesc]

Up until very recently, reverb could not be removed from sound, but the audio people are now raving about a plugin for their sound kit that actually does it

This got me really curious, because I was reading for the longest time removing reverberation was near impossible. But seems like there are some pretty amazing pieces of software out there now (and for some time) that can do a remarkable job. For anyone interested, it seems like these are the current best plug-ins for removing reverb on the market:

SPL's De-Verb Microplug
http://spl.info/en/products/analog-coder-plug-ins/microplugs/de-verb.html
http://www.pro-tools-expert.com/home-page/2012/4/12/reducing-reverb-in-pro-tools.html

http://www.dyvision.co.uk/reverbremover.html (great demos on their audio examples)

http://www.zynaptiq.com/unveil/
Amazing demo: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yitJOeFkscc

http://www.tacsystem.com/en/products/softwares/000563.php (pricey, but pretty amazing voice demoes)

Time to add some tools to my audio software chest