"Re-introducing" Pulldown

aravance

aravance

Well-known member
We are doing a music video shoot and plan to send the footage over to network for broadcast. We want to shoot it in 24PA and edit in a 24P timeline, but then output the footage back to DV tape. In his book, Barry Green talks about having to "re-introduce" pulldown during the output process, but how exactly do you do that on, let's say, a NLE such as Final Cut Pro? Any thoughts?
 
23.98 sequence to tape- FCP adds pulldown.
Check prefs for playback options. Set to highest quality and add pulldown of 2:3:2:3
You can use the Print to Tape option to output.
 
I too have a 24P (advanced pulldown removal) sequence I want to put back to DV tape, and assure it retains its 23.98 and progressive scan for the next person who captures it. My attempts so far have resulted in 29.97 interlaced footage when I try to capture from the new tape - no matter what I set my Final Cut capture preset to. The sequence was set to 2:3:2:3 pulldown pattern by default. What more must I do? Does it have to be recorded with a DVX100? Because we are using a Sony DSR-250 Camera as a deck (the DVX100a was rented). I really appreciate the help.
 
Why do you want to re-capture it? provide it as a data/movie file on DVD or firewire drive if you need to pass the data.
If you really need to re-capture it then set playback to 2:3:3:2
If you want to view the tape then go out with 2:3:2:3
You can capture 2:3:2:3 but will need Cinema Tools to reverse telecine.
 
Scottdvx100 said:
Why do you want to re-capture it? provide it as a data/movie file on DVD or firewire drive if you need to pass the data.
If you really need to re-capture it then set playback to 2:3:3:2
If you want to view the tape then go out with 2:3:2:3
You can capture 2:3:2:3 but will need Cinema Tools to reverse telecine.
Click to expand...
I don't want to recapture it. I just want to make a proper Master Tape of the project before I trash the media files; this is something we do for every project in the event that the client wants future copies or minor re-edits. This way, we can capture the Master instead of re-assembling the entire original project. I thought this was common practice amongst all video production companies. Bearing that in mind, this is our first 24p project. I want to assure the Master I create doesn't become a 29.97 interlaced mess, which is what you get when you send a 24p signal to a 30 frame recording deck.

Ideally, what ends up on this Master tape should be identical to if it was shot with a DVX100 - meaning a user could take the tape and capture it with 23.98 (advanced pulldown removal) and edit it like DVX100 24pa footage. Surely there's a way to do this without using Cinema Tools?
 
For that you'd want to set playback to 2:3:3:2

i make master of the final video output in the format for the release. I also make digital backups of the final output (sans pulldown) and project.
 
Scottdvx100 said:
For that you'd want to set playback to 2:3:3:2
Click to expand...
Scottdvx100,
I appreciate your assistance. Unfortunately, I haven't yet been able to produce a tape that Final Cut will capture at 23.98 progressive. Here are the steps I have tried:

- I set my sequence to the 2:3:3:2 Pulldown Pattern, and Printed to Tape to a Sony DSR 250 Camera.

- The resulting tape will not capture as 23.98fps - it consistently captures as 29.97 interlaced video when using the 23.98 Advanced (2:3:3:2 Pulldown Removal) Capture Preset.

- I popped in a true 24p Advanced tape shot with the DVX100a and captured a clip to assure Final Cut Pro was functioning correctly - the clip came in as 23.98 progressive as it should

- I am currently using the Edit to Tape tool to black out the DV tape I've been using, in the event that the mishmash of pulldown patterns, recording formats, and framerates I've recorded in my trial and error is causing Final Cut to ignore my request for an Advanced Pulldown Removal capture. I'll report back when the tape is blacked out and I can try again.

Thanks again.
 
I just wanted to followup that my blacked out tape still resulted in a video that will only capture at 29.97 interlaced. At this point I feel the only thing I have not tried is recording to a DVX100, as it was a rental and we do not have it here. If someone can assure me that is the solution, we'll have to rent it just so we can lay a Master to tape. Thanks again for the help.
 
have you tried printing to tape with 2:3:2:3, recapturing at 29.97, and removing the pulldown with cinema tools reverse telecine?

i have a theory why the 2:3:3:2 method isn't working for you. the whole advanced pulldown thing is specific to the dvx. the dvx "flags" the pull down frames and transfers this info thru firewire to let fcp know which frames to remove. so fcp is looking for the frames that the dvx has "flagged" as the garbage frames. i bet even though you are inserting pulldown at 2:3:3:2 to tape, fcp is not "flagging" the pulldown frames so it has no idea which ones to remove when you recapture. if this is the case, 2:3:2:3 and reverse telecine would be the way to go i would think.

i hope that made sense.......
 
cheezweezl said:
have you tried printing to tape with 2:3:2:3, recapturing at 29.97, and removing the pulldown with cinema tools reverse telecine?

i have a theory why the 2:3:3:2 method isn't working for you. the whole advanced pulldown thing is specific to the dvx. the dvx "flags" the pull down frames and transfers this info thru firewire to let fcp know which frames to remove. so fcp is looking for the frames that the dvx has "flagged" as the garbage frames. i bet even though you are inserting pulldown at 2:3:3:2 to tape, fcp is not "flagging" the pulldown frames so it has no idea which ones to remove when you recapture. if this is the case, 2:3:2:3 and reverse telecine would be the way to go i would think.

i hope that made sense.......
Click to expand...
Hey whats up new user here:costumed-smiley-047 so would u say it's best to capture footage into fcp shot in 24pA with the dvx as the deck? I ask because everytime I try to capture using advanced pulldown removal I keep getting a message saying that candence was dropped and it aborts my capture. I'm using a Panasonic AG-DV2000. Holla back
 
conman said:
Hey whats up new user here:costumed-smiley-047 so would u say it's best to capture footage into fcp shot in 24pA with the dvx as the deck? I ask because everytime I try to capture using advanced pulldown removal I keep getting a message saying that candence was dropped and it aborts my capture. I'm using a Panasonic AG-DV2000. Holla back
Click to expand...

it isn't just specific to the dvx. I shot 24pa and captured with a sony trv camera and everything was good here. I then just had to change the timeline to 23.98 and bring the clips to the timeline, no rendering or anythign necessary.
 
Scottdvx100 said:
23.98 sequence to tape- FCP adds pulldown.
Check prefs for playback options. Set to highest quality and add pulldown of 2:3:2:3
You can use the Print to Tape option to output.
Click to expand...

so technically speaking you don't have to do anything when printing to tape...fcp does it all for you?
 
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