Rate advice and equipment.

M

Marco Beyermann

New member
Hi Guys,

I´m looking for some advice when providing a rate.

I have been considered as a DOP for a adventure show, in Africa. I just can say that it will be a really intense experience and that we will be filming for an estimate of 5 or 6 weeks non stop. Now, I have never filmed anything like this before and I know that it will look good in my CV . I have been asked for a total rate and have 8-8.5K in mind but feel like I could get a bit more. I would be using my gear-C500+lenses,mics and accesories and might have to invest i a B camera.

I know that I could get more money for this but feel that I am already asking for a lot due this is a low budget productions. Sorry, I know that talking about money sucks and that I should know the value of my time. Would be nice to hear your opinion and experiences.

Thanks, guys!
 
Always a difficult subject.

Without giving a definite answer I can tell you what I have seen in the UK, all prices in sterling.

New guys starting out with DSLR's coming in at £350 per day (2-3 day shoot) to experienced old hands with Sony FS7's or C300's at £700 to £1000 per day, obviously this includes a ton of other gear, lighting sound etc.
So your $8000 for 30 days with a C500 does seem like a bargain, but on the other hand, clients can ask for a discount for such a long shoot.

Given its a budget project, aren't they all maybe you could ask for a little more but will kick yourself if you overcharge. Try a sliding scale and offer to bring more gear if you can charge more.

travel days - anything between a full days rate to half a day, also write in a daily hourly limit, say 9 hous per day. I had one client demand me being available 14 hours a day shooting garbage that was never used because he could.
 
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$8,000 for labor and equipment sounds low. Let's assume you'll get maybe four days off during six weeks. That basically works out to about $200 day [ (6x7)-4 / 8000 ]. Geez; that's low. Feels like going for $350/day for labor and more for equipment would be a better --but still really low-- rate. Your call.

And in addition to Bob's suggestions, make sure you deal memo/contract stipulates how long a day is, how overtime is handled, when you get days off. Sure, in the field you can cut them some slack if you want. But don't get sucked into endless 12-hour days...you'll burn out, the footage will suffer, and the film won't be as good.

Also: Make sure to get a certificate of insurance from them to cover the full replacement value of your equipment if it's lost or damaged in any way for the entire trip (including travel to and from). Don't be responsible for any deductible or below-full-replacement-value terms. That's the production's responsibility. Same with worker's comp.

And check to see if your health insurance will cover you if you're working far away from home. I mean, you probably won't get hurt or sick, but if you get unlucky, make sure you'll get the care you need without generating a huge bill.

Oh, there's more. But you get the idea. Don't be a jerk during your negotiations; just make sure you can do the job without feeling bad about your rate, your lack of rest, and your health.

If you can make the money, insurance, and other issues work, then it sounds like it could be a great experience.

Good luck!
 
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Based on a 30 day gig, you're charging them $266/day...
I would definitely consider revising your estimate.

When I've done this for low budget cable networks the lowest they paid was $600/day without gear, and that was a few years ago.
I have seen them screw over the young guns coming up, but not to that level.
 
That is really low. With gear, you should be getting $1600-$1900/10 hr day for shooter w/gear, in the little section of the TV world I live in. This is at least a $50K shoot, not accounting for any type of long-term discount. Even basing it on an operator only rate of $600/day, you're at $18K for 30 days of shooting.

Now I don't know how long you've been doing this or your experience level, but if someone came to me with the request to shoot for 30+ days straight for $8500 all-in, I'm probably trying my best not to laugh at them and then racking my brain trying to find the most professional way to let them know that their budget isn't even in the realm of realistic and there is no way I can do it.

Just to help you put it in more perspective, based on Bill's calculation that you would essentially be working for $266/day, the average grip around here is making almost $150 or more, than that per day. That's providing no gear and with virtually no responsibility (vs. the responsibility that a "dp" would/should have of a show).

Don't underestimate your worth.
 
Agree with Run & Gun. $2000/day sounds fair.

Reason being, I've done travel shoots. They tend to be 10 hours on a good day - usually it creeps higher due to logistics, transportation, and "3rd world time". And then there is travel time. You are on location, overnight, consecutively. Everything else on your life back home is on pause (vs a normal shoot day). They can be exhausting. The excitement will be LONG gone by week 3. Probably sooner.

And then, you may have to increase your insurance policy on your gear to cover this. Expect heavy wear and tear on your gear that insurance doesn't cover. Hauling gear around planes, trains, trucks, automobiles. Dusty african roads. You will lose small parts, oh, you will. You might drop a lens. Someone may mishandle your stuff. Expect to see your $400 bag come back worse for the wear. Etc. These costs need to be factored in. You may well miss other clients and gigs. Be away from your email too long. Completely check out from relationships and community.

You'll probably get sick. You may spend a few nights puking your cuts out. You may get robbed, or pick pocketed. You may have a mild injury of sorts, from an animal or rock or rusty piece of metal. You may go to an African hospital. You might get extorted for cash at an airport.

These are literally all things I've had or seen happen in my travel shoots. And they cost money.

Also, how well do you know these clients? That makes a difference. Are they cheap skates? If they are trying to low ball you, don't expect great meals, private drivers and AC vans, and nice hotels. What will the accomodations be? What will the airline be? Crappy airline where they force you to check your carry on bag and break your gear? Where you are crammed into a terrible seat?

Not trying to be dramatic, talking from experience.

On one hand, you may want to give a long term discount. On the other hand, you may NOT - specifically because it IS such a long shoot, it really takes you off the grid for a while. And will likely rack up some non-insurance-claimable expenses on your end, and potentially some major discomfort.

I know nothing about you, your place in life, your thirst for adventure and/or portfolio, your financial need, etc. etc. So that all factors into everything. But you have nice gear. That tells me you must be somewhat experienced, and somewhat OK.

$8000 for 2 months... as a freelancer... with overhead... expenses... etc. etc.? For me, no way.

You don't want to sound like a Diva - so read your client. I am going to suggest some things. Some clients may balk, some clients would just sit there and say "of course! What else what you expect, we aren't that inhumane". I've had clients call anything less than business "inhumane" and I've had clients look at me like a diva for requiring more expensive, direct flight routes through reputable airlines... YMMV. My 2 cents:

~~~~~~~~~~~~~

$2000/day is your long term rate. This includes 10/hr days, on location overnights, etc. Maybe you're willing to drop as low as $1500, this really has to be your call. But $8k seems insane.

Your day rate stands for "off days" and travel days - you are out of the country. Your time is being used. That is your day rate, and you require downtime, and in a way you are always on the clock. This one has wiggle room. Some people so 50% of their normal rate for travel/down days, others do 100%. I would not suggest 0%... are you at home? Can you book other gigs? Hang out with your friends? Trust me. Africa will not be as fun by week 3.

Business Class flights. Economy Comfort minimum, with a guaranteed business upgrade if you run into any baggage problems.

5 star hotel only. I say 4-star minimum, but in Africa or any 3rd world, I wouldn't touch sub 5-star. Not with all your nice gear and long shoot days, and not for how cheap they tend to be in 3rd world.

Ask for a Per Diem instead of provided food, or details on food at least. I prefer Per Diem as I feel like client paying makes me feel awkward with everything I order (want that beer and appetizer after a long day? hmm... how will the client perceive that? Want to wash your laundry on the room? Want to eat less tonight, and book a much needed massage? etc. Per Diem is cleaner, and easier.)

Request details on drivers and transportation in country (AC? Private van? tinted windows? Translator? Locals? etc.)

Get assurances on unexpected expenses - transportation problems, extortion, broken gear, etc.

Factor into your decided day rate extra travel wear & tear (expect your luggage to be garbage at the end of this, etc.)

VISAs/immunizations/medical coverage?

Discuss daily expectations and schedule. My personal lessons have been I can shoot about 4 10 hour days in a row before I need a full rest day. I've also learned shooting overseas in 3rd world conditions can be brutal. 4 10 hour days in row, down day, rinse repeat for weeks on end could really do you in. Consider it may be very humid. Temps may be very high. It may be dirty. It may be much more intense shooting than usual on set locations. You may need a schedule of 4/1/4/2/4/1/4/2 (the 1 and 2 being # of down days). I really don't know the logistics of your shoot but this is something worth talking about and being VERY realistic with on your end.

The other thing that has happen to me a number of times on these sorts of overseas, in close quarters for extended times shoot is there is NO barrier. You are with your client all the time. And boundaries can blur real fast. A 10 hour day slides to 11-12 way too easily. "Oh, we've gotta grab this last shot with golden hour light"... expect you are 1.5 hours away from your hotel. And now it's 8pm when you're back, and you're starving. And tomorrow kicks off at 6-7am, and you still need to eat, shower, offload footage, charge batteries, and feel like you want to sleep for 12 hours... expect you'll get 6. But this is the 3rd day of that... and you've been in a disease packed country and your immune system is getting weak...

See what I mean?

I like to make rules, and while I often break them, it does help set expectations and keep consideration in tact. IE "10 hour shoot day, overtime billed @ XXX/hour + Delays the next shooting day start time". Maybe you don't do it exactly like that, but the point is, don't let yourself get slowly dragged into 11-12 hour shoot days 4 days in a row in a 3rd world country.


-------------------

Then again, you may have killer clients lining up business flights, 5 star hotels, a mix of 10 hour shoot days and 4 hour errand shoot days in between, with a 1-2 day weekend every 4-5 days and have the time of your life. You may have nothing lined up, make $3k a month on average, and $8k for a huge adventure with great people, and a great portfolio piece, could be totally worth it... for you.

Just know what you may be getting yourself into...

Oh, and last thing. I don't care how young or experienced you are. Unless you are superhuman, expect at least a week of jetlag and getting reset when you come back. You may need an entire week to detox on return + a week to unpack, unjetlag, grocery shop, etc. Also, your prep time will take longer than you think. A couple days at least. Maybe more depending on how experienced you are and what you need for travel supplies, research, and logistics. That could literally be a "quasi" 1-2.5 week stretch of time where things are highly distracted/not normal as you prepare and detox upon return. You need to account for that in your billing. Don't expect to be busy shooting the week before, hop on a plane, get home, and be back to other gigs the next week. And don't expect to have time to be lining up work in Africa for when you get home, with crappy internet and off hours and super long days. You may be able to do this minimally... but just plan to be 70%-80% blacked out from any ability to really communicate with new and future clients/work while away.

Maybe none of this is in your control. For an adventure show, you aren't being approached as a business or end-to-end shop or freelancer. But the point still stands - many of these may be non-negotiable, but they are WELL worth inquiring about so you can make an informed decision, and set an appropriate rate to compensate.
 
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Of course you shouldn't sell yourself short, but in some places productions expect to pay weekly rates. For example, (loose example) it could be 70% - 80% of 5 individual day rates to give your weekly rate. Just be careful to hit the sweet spot if it's a job you really want and are providing a quote that will be one of many.
 
It is also really depends on your location. Eastern Europe here and if I could get 2000 bucks per day I would easily work just one day each month and still be quite rich here. :))
 
Get three quotes for the hire of your equipment from outside suppliers as dry hire. Deduct that from the fee offered, and see how the sums work. The equipment hire can be presented as a 'non-profit' element - not you being greedy, but if the equipment hire would come to six grand for the period if they hired it directly, then they will see the difference as your fee for DoP - and maybe understand why it is so limited. They might think you have tiny amounts of cheap kit and it hasn't clicked that expensive equipment costs lots of money to hire and use.
 
filmguy123 said:
Agree with Run & Gun. $2000/day sounds fair.

Reason being, I've done travel shoots. They tend to be 10 hours on a good day - usually it creeps higher due to logistics, transportation, and "3rd world time". And then there is travel time. You are on location, overnight, consecutively. Everything else on your life back home is on pause (vs a normal shoot day). They can be exhausting. The excitement will be LONG gone by week 3. Probably sooner.

And then, you may have to increase your insurance policy on your gear to cover this. Expect heavy wear and tear on your gear that insurance doesn't cover. Hauling gear around planes, trains, trucks, automobiles. Dusty african roads. You will lose small parts, oh, you will. You might drop a lens. Someone may mishandle your stuff. Expect to see your $400 bag come back worse for the wear. Etc. These costs need to be factored in. You may well miss other clients and gigs. Be away from your email too long. Completely check out from relationships and community.

You'll probably get sick. You may spend a few nights puking your cuts out. You may get robbed, or pick pocketed. You may have a mild injury of sorts, from an animal or rock or rusty piece of metal. You may go to an African hospital. You might get extorted for cash at an airport.

These are literally all things I've had or seen happen in my travel shoots. And they cost money.

Also, how well do you know these clients? That makes a difference. Are they cheap skates? If they are trying to low ball you, don't expect great meals, private drivers and AC vans, and nice hotels. What will the accomodations be? What will the airline be? Crappy airline where they force you to check your carry on bag and break your gear? Where you are crammed into a terrible seat?

Not trying to be dramatic, talking from experience.

On one hand, you may want to give a long term discount. On the other hand, you may NOT - specifically because it IS such a long shoot, it really takes you off the grid for a while. And will likely rack up some non-insurance-claimable expenses on your end, and potentially some major discomfort.

I know nothing about you, your place in life, your thirst for adventure and/or portfolio, your financial need, etc. etc. So that all factors into everything. But you have nice gear. That tells me you must be somewhat experienced, and somewhat OK.

$8000 for 2 months... as a freelancer... with overhead... expenses... etc. etc.? For me, no way.

You don't want to sound like a Diva - so read your client. I am going to suggest some things. Some clients may balk, some clients would just sit there and say "of course! What else what you expect, we aren't that inhumane". I've had clients call anything less than business "inhumane" and I've had clients look at me like a diva for requiring more expensive, direct flight routes through reputable airlines... YMMV. My 2 cents:

~~~~~~~~~~~~~

$2000/day is your long term rate. This includes 10/hr days, on location overnights, etc. Maybe you're willing to drop as low as $1500, this really has to be your call. But $8k seems insane.

Your day rate stands for "off days" and travel days - you are out of the country. Your time is being used. That is your day rate, and you require downtime, and in a way you are always on the clock. This one has wiggle room. Some people so 50% of their normal rate for travel/down days, others do 100%. I would not suggest 0%... are you at home? Can you book other gigs? Hang out with your friends? Trust me. Africa will not be as fun by week 3.

Business Class flights. Economy Comfort minimum, with a guaranteed business upgrade if you run into any baggage problems.

5 star hotel only. I say 4-star minimum, but in Africa or any 3rd world, I wouldn't touch sub 5-star. Not with all your nice gear and long shoot days, and not for how cheap they tend to be in 3rd world.

Ask for a Per Diem instead of provided food, or details on food at least. I prefer Per Diem as I feel like client paying makes me feel awkward with everything I order (want that beer and appetizer after a long day? hmm... how will the client perceive that? Want to wash your laundry on the room? Want to eat less tonight, and book a much needed massage? etc. Per Diem is cleaner, and easier.)

Request details on drivers and transportation in country (AC? Private van? tinted windows? Translator? Locals? etc.)

Get assurances on unexpected expenses - transportation problems, extortion, broken gear, etc.

Factor into your decided day rate extra travel wear & tear (expect your luggage to be garbage at the end of this, etc.)

VISAs/immunizations/medical coverage?

Discuss daily expectations and schedule. My personal lessons have been I can shoot about 4 10 hour days in a row before I need a full rest day. I've also learned shooting overseas in 3rd world conditions can be brutal. 4 10 hour days in row, down day, rinse repeat for weeks on end could really do you in. Consider it may be very humid. Temps may be very high. It may be dirty. It may be much more intense shooting than usual on set locations. You may need a schedule of 4/1/4/2/4/1/4/2 (the 1 and 2 being # of down days). I really don't know the logistics of your shoot but this is something worth talking about and being VERY realistic with on your end.

The other thing that has happen to me a number of times on these sorts of overseas, in close quarters for extended times shoot is there is NO barrier. You are with your client all the time. And boundaries can blur real fast. A 10 hour day slides to 11-12 way too easily. "Oh, we've gotta grab this last shot with golden hour light"... expect you are 1.5 hours away from your hotel. And now it's 8pm when you're back, and you're starving. And tomorrow kicks off at 6-7am, and you still need to eat, shower, offload footage, charge batteries, and feel like you want to sleep for 12 hours... expect you'll get 6. But this is the 3rd day of that... and you've been in a disease packed country and your immune system is getting weak...

See what I mean?

I like to make rules, and while I often break them, it does help set expectations and keep consideration in tact. IE "10 hour shoot day, overtime billed @ XXX/hour + Delays the next shooting day start time". Maybe you don't do it exactly like that, but the point is, don't let yourself get slowly dragged into 11-12 hour shoot days 4 days in a row in a 3rd world country.


-------------------

Then again, you may have killer clients lining up business flights, 5 star hotels, a mix of 10 hour shoot days and 4 hour errand shoot days in between, with a 1-2 day weekend every 4-5 days and have the time of your life. You may have nothing lined up, make $3k a month on average, and $8k for a huge adventure with great people, and a great portfolio piece, could be totally worth it... for you.

Just know what you may be getting yourself into...

Oh, and last thing. I don't care how young or experienced you are. Unless you are superhuman, expect at least a week of jetlag and getting reset when you come back. You may need an entire week to detox on return + a week to unpack, unjetlag, grocery shop, etc. Also, your prep time will take longer than you think. A couple days at least. Maybe more depending on how experienced you are and what you need for travel supplies, research, and logistics. That could literally be a "quasi" 1-2.5 week stretch of time where things are highly distracted/not normal as you prepare and detox upon return. You need to account for that in your billing. Don't expect to be busy shooting the week before, hop on a plane, get home, and be back to other gigs the next week. And don't expect to have time to be lining up work in Africa for when you get home, with crappy internet and off hours and super long days. You may be able to do this minimally... but just plan to be 70%-80% blacked out from any ability to really communicate with new and future clients/work while away.

Maybe none of this is in your control. For an adventure show, you aren't being approached as a business or end-to-end shop or freelancer. But the point still stands - many of these may be non-negotiable, but they are WELL worth inquiring about so you can make an informed decision, and set an appropriate rate to compensate.
Click to expand...

Can we make this a sticky? Expertly crafted.
 
filmguy123 said:
agree with run & gun. $2000/day sounds fair.

Reason being, i've done travel shoots. They tend to be 10 hours on a good day - usually it creeps higher due to logistics, transportation, and "3rd world time". And then there is travel time. You are on location, overnight, consecutively. Everything else on your life back home is on pause (vs a normal shoot day). They can be exhausting. The excitement will be long gone by week 3. Probably sooner.


<<snip>>

<<trimmed for brevity of quoting>>

<<snip>>

oh, and last thing. I don't care how young or experienced you are. Unless you are superhuman, expect at least a week of jetlag and getting reset when you come back. You may need an entire week to detox on return + a week to unpack, unjetlag, grocery shop, etc. Also, your prep time will take longer than you think. A couple days at least. Maybe more depending on how experienced you are and what you need for travel supplies, research, and logistics. That could literally be a "quasi" 1-2.5 week stretch of time where things are highly distracted/not normal as you prepare and detox upon return. You need to account for that in your billing. Don't expect to be busy shooting the week before, hop on a plane, get home, and be back to other gigs the next week. And don't expect to have time to be lining up work in africa for when you get home, with crappy internet and off hours and super long days. You may be able to do this minimally... But just plan to be 70%-80% blacked out from any ability to really communicate with new and future clients/work while away.

Maybe none of this is in your control. For an adventure show, you aren't being approached as a business or end-to-end shop or freelancer. But the point still stands - many of these may be non-negotiable, but they are well worth inquiring about so you can make an informed decision, and set an appropriate rate to compensate.
Click to expand...


Best.Post.of.2018!



paulears said:
Get three quotes for the hire of your equipment from outside suppliers as dry hire. Deduct that from the fee offered, and see how the sums work. The equipment hire can be presented as a 'non-profit' element - not you being greedy, but if the equipment hire would come to six grand for the period if they hired it directly, then they will see the difference as your fee for DoP - and maybe understand why it is so limited. They might think you have tiny amounts of cheap kit and it hasn't clicked that expensive equipment costs lots of money to hire and use.
Click to expand...

Also a good point. I'm a soundie, and I always file my invoices as labour + gear.
 
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Filmguy makes some great points. Good post.

I had a long term deal with one of my clients. It was approximately 10 months out of the year for several years. It was a package rate each week(two travel days and up to three shoot days). They essentially had me tied up and out of the mix and unavailable to anyone else, because of the amount of time we were gone(avg. 5 days a week). Because of all the factors involved(and they are a good client that wanted to keep the people happy that busted their butts in the field for them), the package worked out to a ~20% increase OVER the normal day-to-day rate, not a discount that most people want for long term work.
 
filmguy123 said:
Agree with Run & Gun. $2000/day sounds fair.

Reason being, I've done travel shoots. They tend to be 10 hours on a good day - usually it creeps higher due to logistics, transportation, and "3rd world time". And then there is travel time. You are on location, overnight, consecutively. Everything else on your life back home is on pause (vs a normal shoot day). They can be exhausting. The excitement will be LONG gone by week 3. Probably sooner.

And then, you may have to increase your insurance policy on your gear to cover this. Expect heavy wear and tear on your gear that insurance doesn't cover. Hauling gear around planes, trains, trucks, automobiles. Dusty african roads. You will lose small parts, oh, you will. You might drop a lens. Someone may mishandle your stuff. Expect to see your $400 bag come back worse for the wear. Etc. These costs need to be factored in. You may well miss other clients and gigs. Be away from your email too long. Completely check out from relationships and community.

You'll probably get sick. You may spend a few nights puking your cuts out. You may get robbed, or pick pocketed. You may have a mild injury of sorts, from an animal or rock or rusty piece of metal. You may go to an African hospital. You might get extorted for cash at an airport.

These are literally all things I've had or seen happen in my travel shoots. And they cost money.

Also, how well do you know these clients? That makes a difference. Are they cheap skates? If they are trying to low ball you, don't expect great meals, private drivers and AC vans, and nice hotels. What will the accomodations be? What will the airline be? Crappy airline where they force you to check your carry on bag and break your gear? Where you are crammed into a terrible seat?

Not trying to be dramatic, talking from experience.

On one hand, you may want to give a long term discount. On the other hand, you may NOT - specifically because it IS such a long shoot, it really takes you off the grid for a while. And will likely rack up some non-insurance-claimable expenses on your end, and potentially some major discomfort.

I know nothing about you, your place in life, your thirst for adventure and/or portfolio, your financial need, etc. etc. So that all factors into everything. But you have nice gear. That tells me you must be somewhat experienced, and somewhat OK.

$8000 for 2 months... as a freelancer... with overhead... expenses... etc. etc.? For me, no way.

You don't want to sound like a Diva - so read your client. I am going to suggest some things. Some clients may balk, some clients would just sit there and say "of course! What else what you expect, we aren't that inhumane". I've had clients call anything less than business "inhumane" and I've had clients look at me like a diva for requiring more expensive, direct flight routes through reputable airlines... YMMV. My 2 cents:

~~~~~~~~~~~~~

$2000/day is your long term rate. This includes 10/hr days, on location overnights, etc. Maybe you're willing to drop as low as $1500, this really has to be your call. But $8k seems insane.

Your day rate stands for "off days" and travel days - you are out of the country. Your time is being used. That is your day rate, and you require downtime, and in a way you are always on the clock. This one has wiggle room. Some people so 50% of their normal rate for travel/down days, others do 100%. I would not suggest 0%... are you at home? Can you book other gigs? Hang out with your friends? Trust me. Africa will not be as fun by week 3.

Business Class flights. Economy Comfort minimum, with a guaranteed business upgrade if you run into any baggage problems.

5 star hotel only. I say 4-star minimum, but in Africa or any 3rd world, I wouldn't touch sub 5-star. Not with all your nice gear and long shoot days, and not for how cheap they tend to be in 3rd world.

Ask for a Per Diem instead of provided food, or details on food at least. I prefer Per Diem as I feel like client paying makes me feel awkward with everything I order (want that beer and appetizer after a long day? hmm... how will the client perceive that? Want to wash your laundry on the room? Want to eat less tonight, and book a much needed massage? etc. Per Diem is cleaner, and easier.)

Request details on drivers and transportation in country (AC? Private van? tinted windows? Translator? Locals? etc.)

Get assurances on unexpected expenses - transportation problems, extortion, broken gear, etc.

Factor into your decided day rate extra travel wear & tear (expect your luggage to be garbage at the end of this, etc.)

VISAs/immunizations/medical coverage?

Discuss daily expectations and schedule. My personal lessons have been I can shoot about 4 10 hour days in a row before I need a full rest day. I've also learned shooting overseas in 3rd world conditions can be brutal. 4 10 hour days in row, down day, rinse repeat for weeks on end could really do you in. Consider it may be very humid. Temps may be very high. It may be dirty. It may be much more intense shooting than usual on set locations. You may need a schedule of 4/1/4/2/4/1/4/2 (the 1 and 2 being # of down days). I really don't know the logistics of your shoot but this is something worth talking about and being VERY realistic with on your end.

The other thing that has happen to me a number of times on these sorts of overseas, in close quarters for extended times shoot is there is NO barrier. You are with your client all the time. And boundaries can blur real fast. A 10 hour day slides to 11-12 way too easily. "Oh, we've gotta grab this last shot with golden hour light"... expect you are 1.5 hours away from your hotel. And now it's 8pm when you're back, and you're starving. And tomorrow kicks off at 6-7am, and you still need to eat, shower, offload footage, charge batteries, and feel like you want to sleep for 12 hours... expect you'll get 6. But this is the 3rd day of that... and you've been in a disease packed country and your immune system is getting weak...

See what I mean?

I like to make rules, and while I often break them, it does help set expectations and keep consideration in tact. IE "10 hour shoot day, overtime billed @ XXX/hour + Delays the next shooting day start time". Maybe you don't do it exactly like that, but the point is, don't let yourself get slowly dragged into 11-12 hour shoot days 4 days in a row in a 3rd world country.


-------------------

Then again, you may have killer clients lining up business flights, 5 star hotels, a mix of 10 hour shoot days and 4 hour errand shoot days in between, with a 1-2 day weekend every 4-5 days and have the time of your life. You may have nothing lined up, make $3k a month on average, and $8k for a huge adventure with great people, and a great portfolio piece, could be totally worth it... for you.

Just know what you may be getting yourself into...

Oh, and last thing. I don't care how young or experienced you are. Unless you are superhuman, expect at least a week of jetlag and getting reset when you come back. You may need an entire week to detox on return + a week to unpack, unjetlag, grocery shop, etc. Also, your prep time will take longer than you think. A couple days at least. Maybe more depending on how experienced you are and what you need for travel supplies, research, and logistics. That could literally be a "quasi" 1-2.5 week stretch of time where things are highly distracted/not normal as you prepare and detox upon return. You need to account for that in your billing. Don't expect to be busy shooting the week before, hop on a plane, get home, and be back to other gigs the next week. And don't expect to have time to be lining up work in Africa for when you get home, with crappy internet and off hours and super long days. You may be able to do this minimally... but just plan to be 70%-80% blacked out from any ability to really communicate with new and future clients/work while away.

Maybe none of this is in your control. For an adventure show, you aren't being approached as a business or end-to-end shop or freelancer. But the point still stands - many of these may be non-negotiable, but they are WELL worth inquiring about so you can make an informed decision, and set an appropriate rate to compensate.
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Thanks for your advice. Will keep your message as my Holy Bible from now on!

I decided not to go ahead in the end since the client couldn't afford my rate - £ 8000 - and offered a really low amount that I couldn't even consider.

The way you described what filming a Travel Show looks like really made me laugh but it is just so true, I was completely aware that I would face all those facts and many more.
This show, in particular, will be filmed in Chad, one of the poorest regions in Africa and also known for troubles with terrorism. When I first offered my rate I knew that's what a professional cam would do for that kind of job but wanted to keep the balance of getting the job and receiving a decent of money. I am looking for that kind of experience so I thought it would be a good chance to get my feet into travel shows. Now, the rate offered is just ridiculous even for a low budget production. I can't believe that there are companies out there selling shows to TV channels and spending that little in DOP's

I basically started about a year ago as a freelance and finding really hard to break my way into the industry at the moment with so much competition that charges nothing.

Thanks for sharing your tips!
 
Marco Beyermann said:
Thanks for your advice. Will keep your message as my Holy Bible from now on!

I decided not to go ahead in the end since the client couldn't afford my rate - £ 8000 - and offered a really low amount that I couldn't even consider.
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Glad this was helpful!

And I think you just dodged a bullet. Most everyone needs to pay their dues in some sense to break in, but I think you could do much better in selecting your opportunity to do that. If they can't afford $8000 for your gear + your time, for 5-6 weeks overseas... I don't even want to imagine what else they can't afford.

Best of luck!
 
Wow, I thought your post was a joke at first. I agree with FilmGuy, I would be at least $1,500.00 to $2k per day with perhaps a negotiated rate for "off days" when you aren't shooting. 6-8 weeks on the road should net you at least $20-25k or more, depending on your skills. Your rate would be more for a non-profit where you are mostly donating your time and gear. The longest I've ever done in Africa was 2 weeks and that was $20k, which was low.
 
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