Quoting Help: How much would you charge for this? 220

L

leaftors

Well-known member
I didn't know where else to post this so sorry in advance.

I am a student and a faculty at my university is asking for a price quote for a promotional video.

Here are the details (i will paste a direct quote:)

we want footage we can use to promote the business MBA program - and put clips on the website, twitter, facebook, and blog

if the assoc. dean likes it, we will use you for other events in the future

You are to film and take photos of the MBA orientation in the following dates to create the promo:
24th - 8:30am -5pm (most action is in the morning)
25th - 8:30am-7pm

im thinking some footage with just music in the background and then some footage of students speaking - you would ask them questions and we would hear what their responses are (e.g. are you excited? what are you most looking forward to? why did you choose ******* MBA?, etc. I can provide you with those questions)

e.g (but better!)http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=st8XGrHGfEE

your suggestions are welcome.

we are looking for a competitive quote because this is the first time we are doing something like this.
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This would be my 2nd paid gig.

I am thinking of charging minimum wage for the total hours for the 24th and 25th. I'm not much of an editor so I don't know how much to charge for editing.

I own the majority of my equipment. I would probably need to rent a lav or a light fixure, but let's disregard that and assume I own everything at the moment.

I'm thinking of charging $700.

20 hours of shooting
40 hours of editing

60 hours x min wage rounded up to 700

also

What are some things you guys liked/disliked about the youtube video?
 
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With respect...I think if you have to ask these type of questions ...you should be doing it for free.

(Consider it experience and a means to develop some skills)

You wil be taking work away from professionals in your region and the university is displaying a not very professional front tothe same business people

(Strange attitude for a Business College)
 
Thank you for the reply.

The faculty had specifically asked for a film student in their advertisement. I guess they can't afford a ''professional.''

Honestly, I did a quick search for local videographers and I believe I can produce up to par if not better work in terms of production value and quality even though I am still a student.

I've worked on several school film sets that far exceed the tasks being called for in this project and I don't see why I shouldn't be asking for pay.

Also, they insisted on a quote so i'd rather learn and get paid than learn and work for free.
 
> I am thinking of charging minimum wage for the total hours for the 24th and 25th.

Ouch!

Dude... Once you graduate, think about how much your time is worth, think about how much your equipment costs (and how it will be obsolete in 3 yrs so you'll have to buy new equipment) Think about how much rent costs, think about how much it cost to take that cute girl you've been eyeing on a proper date, think about how much it will cost to repair your car in a year or two, not to mention insurance (both health and production) and all the various business licenses will cost. Finally, think about how much you just spent on your education... Charge what you deserve.

Three days shooting and five days editing... I'd say triple that at least, even for someone new. But you'll probably settle for double...
 
Your minimum wage is 10 dollars?!?! Crist, it's more cut throat "over there" than I thought.

I don't lift a finger for less 800 dollars a day if I'm bringing in my own time and equipment. If equipment is supplied I might let myself go relatively cheaper... but please, don't dump prices, your are creating a set of events that will come back and bite you in the ass once the pros decide to get rid of you and you obscene prices but dumping their own prices.

Honestly, if I ever win the lottery with a significant amount of cash I will do my best to destroy every little "enthusiast" in the game... clients don't look at quality anymore, they look at the bill :(
 
leaftors said:
The faculty had specifically asked for a film student in their advertisement. I guess they can't afford a ''professional.''.
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I bet they have money to have to toilets cleaned professionally or does the Dean do that ?

Be clear they are choosing not to employ a professional and that says something about them as a client - be wary

Keep the rate low specific to your position on the career ladder..

But I would be careful to nail down the brief - what you dont want to have to do is six revisions of the the edit on a fixed cost
 
leaftors said:
Thank you for the reply.

The faculty had specifically asked for a film student in their advertisement. I guess they can't afford a ''professional.''

Honestly, I did a quick search for local videographers and I believe I can produce up to par if not better work in terms of production value and quality even though I am still a student.

I've worked on several school film sets that far exceed the tasks being called for in this project and I don't see why I shouldn't be asking for pay.

Also, they insisted on a quote so i'd rather learn and get paid than learn and work for free.
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that's fine, but looking at other stuff and saying "I think I can do that" it was one of the biggest traps and mistakes student filmmakers fall into. You can't confidently say "I can produce something of that quality" until you've produced something of that quality.
But that aside, to answer your question--

1) I think you're overshooting the amount of hours it's going to take. Maybe I'm wrong, I don't know the video, but I'd suggest if you're putting 20 hours into shooting what sounds to me like a relatively simple shoot without big crews and everything... and 40 hours into editing it... that you're not working efficiently as you could be. but hey, i don't know the video, I could be wrong.

That said...
2) I think you should be charging more than minimum wage. Now, the promise of future work is always laughable to me, but what the hell, let's say they WILL hire you for future work. They're going to expect to pay you the same on the future stuff as they're paying you now. Do you want to shoot all your videos for them for the next few years at minimum wage? And furthermore... you're not flipping burgers. This is a real job requiring a skillset. Now, you're a student, not a professional, you don't need to be charging $1000/day... but do yourself a little better than minimum wage.

And finally... no, I'm not going to give you a dollar amount, because I don't know the project, I don't know your skillset or experience or equipment and I don't know your school's budget. No one on here does. You have to figure out what the job's worth to you, hopefully the advice I offered can help you make that decision. What I can tell you is i've done what sounds like similar jobs at similar experience levels, and I got paid a lot more than minimum wage... but the total bill wasn't anywhere near $700. Take that as you will.
 
Thanks for all the replies.

Are there any strategies in the words you use to deliver the quote?

I just don't know how to reply. I am thinking of stating the final price and then showing a breakdown of the shooting/editing costs into hours.
 
Never, ever, agree to do work cheaply with the promise of more because the more will be at exactly the same rate of pay. If you work cheap once, you will never be able to put your prices up to what are realistic. First thing is to get rid of the concept of anything being hourly. Try to think in terms of a half day or full day or extended day - that way the link between pay and hours is broken.

Frankly I think it unforgivable a Masters in Business uses none of these skills in their own work.
we want footage we can use to promote the business MBA program - and put clips on the website, twitter, facebook, and blog

if the assoc. dean likes it, we will use you for other events in the future

You are to film and take photos of the MBA orientation in the following dates to create the promo:
24th - 8:30am -5pm (most action is in the morning)
25th - 8:30am-7pm

im thinking some footage with just music in the background and then some footage of students speaking - you would ask them questions and we would hear what their responses are (e.g. are you excited? what are you most looking forward to? why did you choose ******* MBA?, etc. I can provide you with those questions)
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Your work will be on the website and they\re clearly planning on using it for a fair while. Are you also two people - you have to film AND take photos - do they expect you to put a broom up your trouser leg and clean the floor at the same time too?

So that for me would be one full day, one extended day.

Questions for them. How long should the finished product be? I'm thinking minutes, not hours? Music is mentioned - how about copyright clearance?
On a website this could be a major cost - much more than your tiny amount!
They also want you to be the presenter and ask questions? The reality is this is turning into a 3 person shoot, and they want you to do everything!

They're clearly unused to how these things are done. Assuming you can do all this stuff, and it takes sensible time - then I can't see that at least $2000 is out of the way price wise for somebody starting out. I'm sure other people would want more.

Frankly - if you want to do it for beer money, to get experience, then do it for your 700, and see what happens.

You could quote a professional rate with a discount available if another contract or guarantee of a further contract comes within a certain date, but I doubt they'll go for it. They know as was said above, how much it costs for contractors to do work on the IT, premises and technical systems - so they're not treating you very well at all.
 
Lets be constructive here. Since you are a student i don't feel you should be getting paid for your work because you are still learning BUT you should be getting paid for what you spent money one (mics, camera etc). So go ahead charge your $700-1000 but not as labor but rental fee for your gear.

(and no, you can't do something on par with the pros out there until you have done it - as someone eloquently said it already - this way of thinking shows that you still are a student)

As far as pro rates. This is one day shoot and 2 day edit (plus extra day for revisions).
You with gear on the shoot day (maybe ad a PA): $1500-2000
Edit: 1000-1500
20% overhead: $500-700

So in pro terms this job is about $3000-4000.
 
Why do you guys think he should be doing this for free if he's a student? When I got my first job at a grocery store, they paid me on the days that they trained me. I had no idea what I was doing and had to have someone with me all day, costing them even more money than just my hourly rate. Sure this is a one time thing, but they obviously don't want to pay real money, so they'll pay less and hire him. Most importantly it doesn't sound like a 15 second spot to be delivered that day, it's a fair amount of work.

You obviously have some know how, you've made projects and it looks like you've gotten paid for one already. Don't sell yourself short on this, just because you're not getting paid the big bucks doesn't mean you have to get minimum wage. Especially when it sounds like this will be a lot of work on your part, probably more than you're estimating. Figure out the standard rental rates for your gear and give them a little break on that, then continue with what you're doing to figure out the hourly rate. Although its not how we usually do things, I think it's a lot easier to figure out how much you should charge based on the work being done.
 
RyanT said:
Why do you guys think he should be doing this for free if he's a student? When I got my first job at a grocery store, they paid me on the days that they trained me. I had no idea what I was doing and had to have someone with me all day, costing them even more money than just my hourly rate. Sure this is a one time thing, but they obviously don't want to pay real money, so they'll pay less and hire him. Most importantly it doesn't sound like a 15 second spot to be delivered that day, it's a fair amount of work.
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Because quoting $10/h becomes defacto working rate for video work in the minds of those producers so when in 2 years he comes back as a pro asking for x10 the amount they will laugh in his face. On the other hand when doing something for free to gain experience as students he doesn't dilute the market with silly $10/h work quotes.
 
Patryk_Rebisz said:
Lets be constructive here. Since you are a student i don't feel you should be getting paid for your work because you are still learning
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Im not sure that is clear .. I mean learning is a place where you can mess up (at no negative to anyone) and also where you have teachers over your shoulder

I think this gig is one step beyond that and our OP should charge a rate consumerate with his skills and experience

not to mention the clear desire from the client to make significant commercial use..

In fact our OP should consider charge the full rate for making a promotional video for FB twitter et al

When I sold pictures when I was 22 if they got in The Times I didnt get less money than a 40 YO selling pictures to The Times

(at my college we had the rates stuck on the wall.. so knew them!)..

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10151106566920180&set=o.52974419617&type=3&theater


S
 
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There are other issues involved in professional work and I wonder how the OP or his client would manage them. These can bite the inexperienced

Anywhere I shoot is covered by Public Liabilty Insurance. In certain situations we take extra cover. These are in case we burn something down, damage it, hurt someone etc...in the process of filming.

What about - talent releases. Filming someone who does not want to appear or be filmed. Needs managing prior to and on the day of the shoot

What about Negative Insurance - in case of technical loss of data and reshoots.

Basically someone carries the can in these situations and the pros charge for insuring against it and managing the risks.


FWIW: I am all for "new guys" working and getting experience...but I am against clients taking advantage of them. I am also against "giving away" skills and setting low benchmarks for those that follow.


BTW: The OP has edited out of his original post some "how to" questions, that did give an indication of his film making experience. THese questions were part of the reason for my original post to him.
 
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Shooter said:
BTW: The OP has edited out of his original post some "how to" questions, that did give an indication of his film making experience. THese questions were part of the reason for my original post to him.
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I don't think anyone's questioning whether or not he's inexperienced-- he says upfront he's a student. The question is whether inexperience commands a significantly less-than-professional rate, or no rate, or (low but still) professional rate. Fair arguments for all, but I don't think there's any bottom rate that other people seem to believe in (some seem to suggest that regardless of experience, if one is able to deliver a finished product that the client is happy with, a professional rate is necessary). If a job's worth $50, and you're okay with $50, charge $50. Just know that the next time the client has a similar job, they're going to pay you $50, even if you're a lot better by then.
I am truly envious of people that can charge $2000+ for their first or second job. I just know that if I had tried that, I'd have never gotten a job.
 
The question is whether inexperience commands a significantly less-than-professional rate, or no rate, or (low but still) professional rate.
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Consider what would you pay for an inexperienced mechanic, doctor, pilot, D.P, dentist, etc...who had to ask on a website ...suggestions how to do their job and how much to charge for it.

Caveat emptor.
 
There's a fundamental difference between professions where poor practice can kill you or cause serious medical problems, and professions where poor practice isn't as entertaining or slick as good practice.
 
If you charge them $10/hr now, you will only ever be able to charge them $10/hr. That's why free this time is better. Show them you're worth it, then charge them for it.
 
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