QuickStream DV special pricing for DVXuser.com.

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Re: QuickStream DV special pricing for DVXuser.com

Re: QuickStream DV special pricing for DVXuser.com

jarred, i just shot some test footage using 24pa using the quickstream. is there a way to find out in final cut pro 4(i know you're on vegas) to detect the 2-3-3-2 pulldown? or how can i find out if the quickstream automatically removed the 2-3-3-2 pulldown? thanks!
 
Re: QuickStream DV special pricing for DVXuser.com

Re: QuickStream DV special pricing for DVXuser.com

are you saving it as a Quicktime on the Quickstream? all of my tests show that the quickstream doesnt remove any pulldown, you need to set your NLE to do this. FCP i have no idea, although I think someone posted how to check in the FCP forum
 
Re: QuickStream DV special pricing for DVXuser.com

Re: QuickStream DV special pricing for DVXuser.com

jarred, maybe i'm confused. i set my quickstream to quicktime .mov. so you're saying whether it be quicktime mov, avi, .dv, etc, the quickstream does not remove any pulldown? i know in fcp in the CAPTURE preset, there is an item i can check, "2-3-3-2 advanced pulldown removal." since all my footage is in the quickstream, i won't be doing any capturing. when in 24pa, does recording to tape remove pulldown? can you tell me your workflow in vegas? awww ****!?!? i'm one confused mofo ???

sorry for all the questions...
 
Re: QuickStream DV special pricing for DVXuser.com

Re: QuickStream DV special pricing for DVXuser.com

I can't answer for what FCP does, but on Vegas, the pulldown removal is done on-the-fly. The pulldown stays in the file, as recorded by the camera. In Vegas, you could open a 60i project and import the file as 60i, and it would work fine as a 60i file. Or you could open a 24P project and tell it to remove pulldown from any files you import, and then import that same file, and it would come in as a 24P file. The pulldown is still in the file, but Vegas ignores the generated frames and extracts the original frames on the fly.

I don't know if FCP works the same way, but I'd bet it does.
 
Re: QuickStream DV special pricing for DVXuser.com

Re: QuickStream DV special pricing for DVXuser.com

yes.. Barry is right. It records to the disk just as if you hooked your camera up to the computer and captured the file.. a NTSC AVI or MOV etc.
 
Re: QuickStream DV special pricing for DVXuser.com

Re: QuickStream DV special pricing for DVXuser.com

<<on Vegas, the pulldown removal is done on-the-fly.>>

that's how fcp works as well. this is where i'm confused. when you're saying done on the fly, you're talking about capturing the footage such as that from your mq dv tape, correct? . but since you recorded to the quickstream, no capturing on the fly is needed. so how does vegas remove pulldown from quickstream footage if there was never a capture? thanks for helping me out guys! i appreciate your comments!
 
Re: QuickStream DV special pricing for DVXuser.com

Re: QuickStream DV special pricing for DVXuser.com

no it doesnt capture it.. it removes the pulldown on the fly meaning that when you are editing on a 24p timeline the 60i clip is converted in real-time to 24p so you get frame accurate progressive editing. I guess you can look at it like a vegas filter, it does it while you preview etc. It doesnt actually change the clip on disk untill you save it out as something else (i.e. a 24p file)
 
Re: QuickStream DV special pricing for DVXuser.com

Re: QuickStream DV special pricing for DVXuser.com

Right. The file is stored on the disk as 60i, either with 2:3:3:2 or 2:3 pulldown, depending on which mode you shot it in.

Vegas' capture utility does not remove any pulldown. It just copies the data straight off the tape. When you're editing, it "knows" which frames are "real" and which are "pulldown" frames, and it ignores the pulldown frames. But the file on disk is still an exact clone of what you shot on tape, with pulldown intact. As you edit, your source remains untouched, exactly as it was recorded (whether that recording was to the quickstream or to tape and then "captured" to disk, which is actually a misnomer since it doesn't "capture" anything, it just copies it from tape to disk.)

So the video on tape is recorded as 60i with pulldown. The video captured to hard disk is 60i, with pulldown. The video on the quickstream is 60i, with pulldown. Vegas interprets it on the fly, as you edit, to drop pulldown frames and reconstruct the 24P sequence, but never touching the source video.

I am guessing that FCP works the same way.

I'm pretty sure Avid's higher-end systems do NOT work that way. They actually capture 24P and write a 24P file onto the disk. But that's not the way Vegas works, and I think that's not the way FCP works. Noah Kadner (over at 2-pop or CreativeCow) could probably give you a definitive answer though.

Or, you could test for yourself: capture 10 seconds of 24P video, and look at the file size on disk. If it's storing it as 60i, the file should be roughly 36 megabytes. If it's storing it as pulldown-removed 24P, then it should only be about 30 megabytes.
 
Re: QuickStream DV special pricing for DVXuser.com

Re: QuickStream DV special pricing for DVXuser.com

I don't believe FCP will remove a captured 3:2:2:3 pulldown patter from an existing file. Although, while capturing normally from a tape it can do it on the fly, I believe (I could be wrong though) that you will need to take the file from the Quickstream and run it through the Cinema Tools app to remove the advanced pulldown.

This is just a guess.

Andrew
Crystal Clear Media
 
Re: QuickStream DV special pricing for DVXuser.com

Re: QuickStream DV special pricing for DVXuser.com

Noahs off in Australia wooping it up right now (must be nice)

But yes.. for the Avid Symphony, you need to convert to real 24p quicktimes to online the DVX footage.
 
Re: QuickStream DV special pricing for DVXuser.com

Re: QuickStream DV special pricing for DVXuser.com

almost..
 
Re: QuickStream DV special pricing for DVXuser.com

Re: QuickStream DV special pricing for DVXuser.com

thanks again guys!  i'm thinking that andrew is correct...i would hate to go that extra step in cinematools...kinda defeats the purpose of the quickstream dontcha think?  i will post on the fcp board so hopefully someone such as claytonf  ;D can confirm the workflow...just curious, what if i didn't remove advanced pulldown and edited my footage? what would the final result look like? god i love this site!  ;D  got dvx?  hey, that would make a cool t-shirt!  ;)
 
Re: QuickStream DV special pricing for DVXuser.com

Re: QuickStream DV special pricing for DVXuser.com

Hey Jarrod,
I was looking at your mounting device (nice granite counters by the way) and I was thinking of how to mount the quickstream under the plate of the Steadycam JR with a male to male threaded adapter I have when I got this ultra simple idea.
With a short piece of all-thread (long enough to go into the underside of the camera and stick out enough to twist on the quickstream... one could simply screw the drive onto the bottom of the camera...
This would only work for hand held stuff but pretty compact.
Just a thought.
 
Re: QuickStream DV special pricing for DVXuser.com

Re: QuickStream DV special pricing for DVXuser.com

<<Or, you could test for yourself: capture 10 seconds of 24P video, and look at the file size on disk.  If it's storing it as 60i, the file should be roughly 36 megabytes.  If it's storing it as pulldown-removed 24P, then it should only be about 30 megabytes.>>

Barry, i just tested 10 seconds of 24pa footage and it is 36.1mb. so based on your quote above, this is not what i want since advanced pulldown hasn't been removed, correct? if i want to remove advanced pulldown, i will have to go into cinema tools to do this. damn, this sucks if indeed true. what is the purpose for removing pulldown anyway? thanks!
 
Re: QuickStream DV special pricing for DVXuser.com

Re: QuickStream DV special pricing for DVXuser.com

Hey Boo.

GOt DVX would be cool. Cool thing about cafe Press is we can submit all kinds of designs or even do it solo if you want to do something cool.

Sorry. Thread jack. Now back to our regulary scheduled program.
 
Re: QuickStream DV special pricing for DVXuser.com

Re: QuickStream DV special pricing for DVXuser.com

Hey Boo,

Actually, it sounds like it's a good thing. It seems to imply that FCP does indeed work like Vegas, by removing pulldown on the fly. Furthermore, it seems to imply that you'd have no trouble using the Quickstream with FCP 4 and 24PA.
 
Re: QuickStream DV special pricing for DVXuser.com

Re: QuickStream DV special pricing for DVXuser.com

And Barry... Sony confirmed with me that Vegas 5 will fix that little bug with the quickstream. They took apart an entire stream I sent them.
 
Re: QuickStream DV special pricing for DVXuser.com

Re: QuickStream DV special pricing for DVXuser.com

Awesome! Excellent news. Now if they'll just release a version of the Quickstream that has the ability to play back files through firewire, I'm set! Thanks for following up on that!
 
Re: QuickStream DV special pricing for DVXuser.com

Re: QuickStream DV special pricing for DVXuser.com

<<Or, you could test for yourself: capture 10 seconds of 24P video, and look at the file size on disk.  If it's storing it as 60i, the file should be roughly 36 megabytes.  If it's storing it as pulldown-removed 24P, then it should only be about 30 megabytes.>>

<<Barry, i just tested 10 seconds of 24pa footage and it is 36.1mb.  so based on your quote above, this is not what i want since advanced pulldown hasn't been removed, correct?  if i want to remove advanced pulldown, i will have to go into cinema tools to do this.  damn, this sucks if indeed true.  what is the purpose for removing pulldown anyway?  thanks!>>


<<Hey Boo,
 
Actually, it sounds like it's a good thing.  It seems to imply that FCP does indeed work like Vegas, by removing pulldown on the fly.  Furthermore, it seems to imply that you'd have no trouble using the Quickstream with FCP 4 and 24PA.>>

barry, really? based on your 10sec. test above, don't i want a 30mb file since that's the one that would have, "advanced pulldown removed at 24p?" is there a way i can find out checking frame by frame if pulldown has been removed? if it helps any, i notice every 5th frame has interlaced lines. thanks for helping me get to the bottom of this! where's noah when ya need him...i know... i know... in australia...
 
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